- TONIGHT A CONVERSATION WITH HIP HOP PIONEER, FAB FIVE FREDDY.

- YOUNG, BLACK, AND LATIN KIDS WITH A HAT ON TO THE SIDE, SNEAKERS ON, STANDING IN THE B-BOY POSE WERE ALWAYS DEPICTED NEGATIVELY AS CRIMINALS IN THE PRESS.

AND THAT'S NOT WHO WE WERE.

SO I WANTED TO CHANGE THAT NARRATIVE AND GET PEOPLE TO LOOK AT WHAT WE WERE DOING, IN A BETTER LIGHT.

- FAB FIVE FREDDY COMING UP RIGHT NOW.

- LOVE AND RESPECT WITH KILLER MIKE, IS MADE POSSIBLE BY.

(UPBEAT MUSIC) (UPBEAT MUSIC) - HE'S A HIP HOP ICON, GRAFFITI WRITER, ARTIST, FILMMAKER, AND BUSINESSMAN.

WHOSE NEW CANNABIS BRAND IS B NOBLE.

FAB FIVE FREDDY, WELCOME TO LOVE AND RESPECT OG.

- WHAT UP BABY?

- MAN - GOOD TO BE HERE WITH YOU MAN.

- THIS IS A BIG ONE.

I FEEL LIKE THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN TRAINING MY WHOLE LIFE TO DO.

(BOTH LAUGH) - SO YOU AND MY MOTHER WERE BORN IN THE SAME YEAR - WOW.

- AND YOU GUYS WERE A VERY INTERESTING GENERATION IN THAT YOU GREW UP WITH A COMBINATION OF A LOT OF DIFFERENT ARTS AND MUSIC.

SO YOU GREW UP WITH BLUES AND GOSPEL AND FUNK AND JAZZ.

YOU GREW UP AROUND THIS AMALGAMATION OF JUST LIKE DOPE STUFF.

AND THEN AT SOME POINT IN YOUR ERA, ABOUT 50 YEARS AGO, KIDS DECIDE, AND CREATE ANOTHER ART FORM OF MUSIC CALLED HIP HOP.

AND HIP HOP IS ENCOMPASSED IN A BIGGER ART AS I UNDERSTAND IT.

IT HAS B-BOYING, WHICH IS THE PEOPLE WOULD CALL BREAK DANCING.

- RIGHT.

- HAS GRAFFITI WRITING OR GRAFFITI ART OR WHAT PEOPLE WOULD SEE ON TRAINS, AND LATER IN GALLERIES, THANKS TO YOU.

HAS THE DJ WHO WAS, WHO WAS PUTTING THE PARTIES ON JAMS.

AND THEN AT THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST WAS THE F SEATERS.

(FAB CHUCKLES) - THE GUYS WHO WOULD GET ON A BIKE AND, BUT SOMEHOW THAT GOT INVERTED.

- YEAH.

- AND RAPPERS TOOK THE TIP OF THE SPEAR IN THE FOREFRONT.

- SURE DID.

- YOU HAVE BEEN AN AMAZING AMBASSADOR, TO THE ARTISTIC WORLD IN NEW YORK AND BEYOND, IN JAZZ AND VISUAL ARTS AND WRITING.

MEANING GRAFFITI WRITING OUT IN PUBLIC.

- YEP.

- AND YOU HELPED PUT RAP ON A DIFFERENT LEVEL.

WHAT, WHY, YOU KNOW, WHY DID YOU, WHY DIDN'T YOU STICK WITH DISCO OR WHY DIDN'T YOU?

- OH MAN, I'M SO GLAD YOU SAID DISCO.

BECAUSE DISCO WAS SOMETHING THAT, BEFORE THERE WAS RAP, HIP HOP, THAT WHOLE MOVEMENT IN THE STREETS, THERE WERE THESE, WHAT, WHAT WERE, THERE WERE DISCO DJS.

- [MIKE] YES.

- AND SO THEY WERE THE MOBILE SOUND SYSTEM.

THIS WENT BACK INTO THE SIXTIES.

I WAS A LITTLE BOY.

I WASN'T ON THE SCENE, BUT I WAS AWARE OF IT.

AND AS WE GOT INTO THE SEVENTIES, THE DISCO THING, BLACK AND LATIN DJS, MOBILE SOUND SYSTEMS.

THAT WAS THE THING, NO MIXING, NO CUTTING, NO SCRATCHING, JUST PLAYING THE HOTTEST RECORDS AND THE RECORDS NEVER STOPPING.

- [MIKE] YES.

- BECAUSE THAT WAS THE BIGGEST, LIKE AMAZING THING.

BECAUSE PRIOR TO THAT, YOU PUT THAT STACK OF 45'S, ON THE RECORD AND PUT THAT THING, OVER, OLD HEADS KNOW AND THEM RECORDS WOULD DROP DOWN.

- YEAH.

- IT'D BE A MINUTE OR SO PAUSE, AND THEN THE NEXT RECORD WOULD PLAY.

- YES - AND THAT'S HOW YOU ROCK.

SO THAT WAS A BIG INNOVATION THAT DISCO DJS PIONEERED.

THAT WAS THE INSPIRATION THAT GAVE BIRTH TO HIP HOP.

THAT'S WHAT KOOL HERC WANTED TO BE BECAUSE THESE GUYS WERE LEGENDARY IN THE STREETS OF NEW YORK.

- [MIKE] YEAH.

- BUT ALSO, THIS INSPIRED A MASSIVE COMMERCIALIZATION OF DISCO, THE, THE LIKE DISCO REMIX RECORD, AND EVENTUALLY A LOT OF BAD MUSIC WAS MADE, UNDER THE DISCO BANNER.

- [MIKE] YEAH.

- AND SO DISCO TOOK A BAD HIT BUT, A LOT OF THE EARLIEST HIP HOP GROUPS IN NEW YORK HAD DISCO IN THEIR NAME, YOU KNOW, THE DISCO THREE - [MIKE] YEAH - THE DISCO FOUR, DISCO THIS DISCO THAT.

- EVEN THE DRESSING STYLES THIS, AND I SAY THIS BECAUSE AGAIN, YOU'RE A MOM'S SAME AGE.

SO I KINDA, SHE WAS 16 WHEN SHE HAD ME, I JUST KIND OF GREW UP WITH HER.

- [FAB] WOW.

- SO WHATEVER MOM WAS LISTENING TO, MOM'S LISTENING TO DONNA SUMMER, WE LISTENED TO DONNA SUMMER.

- [FAB] OH BRO, YES, YES, YES - YOU KNOW, MOM WAS ON A GRACE JONES WAVE.

WE ON A GRACE JONES WAVE.

- [FAB] OH THAT'S SO DOPE.

- AND, AND IT REALLY WAS BECAUSE SHE ENCOURAGED, LIKE I TELL PEOPLE ALL THE TIME, LIKE MY WIFE IS YOUNGER THAN ME, RIGHT.

SHE'S ALMOST 10 YEARS YOUNGER.

SO SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO EXPLAIN WHAT THIS IS.

THIS IS WHY KRS ONE IS IMPORTANT.

- [FAB] YES.

- AND THIS IS, HE'S KIND OF LIKE MY JUVENILE, TO YOUR HOT BOYS.

- WOW.

- [MIKE] I HAVE TO TEACH HIM, TEACH HIM.

SHE, SHE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT THE FIRST WAVE OF RAPPERS, YOUR KURTIS BLOWS, GRANDMASTER FLASH, FURIOUS FIVES.

THEY WERE MY MOTHER'S MUSIC TO ME.

- WOW.

- LIKE, LIKE I LOVED IT.

IT WAS STILL DOPE, BUT THEY DRESSED DISCO.

THEY LOOKED FLY.

JUST, THEY LOOKED LIKE ADULTS TOO.

VERSUS WHEN RUN AND DMC CAME OUT AND JAM MASTER JAY, IT WAS LIKE, OH YOU BOUGHT ME THAT LEVI, (LAUGHS) - LIKE I'M SUPPOSED TO BE HERE.

- [FAB] YEAH.

- TALK ABOUT THE COMING OUT OF DISCO, RAP KIND OF BURGEONING.

BECAUSE WHAT DISCO DID WAS PUT A BUNCH OF PEOPLE WHO WEREN'T ALIKE IN A ROOM TOGETHER.

- [FAB] YEAH - AND THAT'S WHAT I SAW MY MOTHER DOING.

SHE WAS THROWING PARTIES WHERE HER ARTISTS FRIENDS, WERE THERE WITH HER FRIENDS FROM A MORE CRIMINAL NATURE WHERE THERE WERE HER COUSINS WHO WERE SQUARE FROM TUSKEGEE ROOTS.

AND IT WAS ALL THESE DIFFERENT PERSONALITIES KIND OF MIXING AND TEACHING AND LEARNING.

WHAT WAS THAT LIKE IN NEW YORK?

BECAUSE YOU WERE IN SOME ROOMS THAT WERE, AMAZING.

- WELL, RIGHT I'VE BEEN, BEEN, SO IN THE VERY BEGINNING, I WAS JUST A KID, VERY TUNED IN, WANTING TO HANG OUT AND AWARE THAT THERE WAS THIS THING CALLED DISCO GOING ON.

AND I HAD OLDER RELATIVES THAT WOULD BRING THE FLYERS HOME.

- [MIKE] YEAH - FROM DIFFERENT EVENTS, AND I'D BE LIKE, YOU KNOW, THREE, FOUR, FIVE DOLLARS, YOU KNOW, TO GET IN, MAN.

I REALLY WISH I HAD THAT.

SO THAT WAS THE BIG INSPIRATION THAT INSPIRED A LOT OF URBAN HEADS.

- [MIKE] YEAH.

- BECAUSE YOU SAW THESE DISCO DJS BECOME POPULAR STARS, AND THAT INSPIRED PARTICULARLY KOOL HERC AND OTHER PEOPLE WANTED TO DO IT, TO KIND OF DIVE IN, AND DO SOMETHING A LITTLE DIFFERENT.

THAT'S WHAT EVENTUALLY EVOLVED.

- [MIKE] GOT YA.

- I MEAN, AND SO WHEN HERC PLAYED SOME WEIRD RECORDS THAT NOBODY HAD EVER HEARD BEFORE WITH A DOPE BEAT, AND THE, HIS RAP IS, WASN'T REALLY TELLING STORIES.

IT WASN'T REALLY NARRATIVE RAP, BUT THEY WERE JUST SHOUTING OUT PEOPLE, - [MIKE] YEAH.

- YOU KNOW, THROW YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR, SAY HO, AND ALL THOSE BASIC THINGS HAPPENED.

THAT, THOSE FEW SPARKS THAT HERC CREATED TAKING THAT DISCO THING AND DOING A REMIX ON IT INSPIRED A WHOLE BUNCH OF, NOW KEEP IN MIND, EVERYBODY THAT INVOLVED IN, IN HIP HOP AT THAT TIME, WE ALL TEENAGERS, EVERYBODY IS A TEENAGER.

SO IT WAS LIKE THEY WENT HOME AND TOOK THOSE LITTLE GEMS THAT THEY GOT FROM HERC AND EXPERIMENTED, AND FLASH AND GRANDMASTER AND THEM, REALLY PERFECTED THESE IDEAS.

AND THEN THEY ALL HAD TO HAVE A RAPPER.

THE RAPPER'S JOB WAS REALLY TO TALK ABOUT HOW DOPE THEIR DJ WAS (MIKE CHUCKLES) - AND TO GET THE CROWD, TO THROW THEIR HANDS IN THE AIR WAVE THEM LIKE YOU JUST DON'T CARE.

BUT THAT THING, THE RAPPERS KEPT GOING AND THEY TOOK LITTLE NURSERY RHYME TYPE THINGS AND THESE, THOSE BECAME LONG NARRATIVE STORIES OF GHETTO LIFE.

- [MIKE] AND, AND WE CAN, SO WHAT DO YOU.

YOU SMILED AS YOU TALK ABOUT IT.

AND IT'S BEAUTIFUL.

CAUSE YOU CAN TELL YOU GET THOSE FEELINGS WHEN YOU CREATE SOMETHING OR PART OF THE CREATION OF SOMETHING - [FAB] YEAH.

- YOU'RE GETTING NOSTALGIC.

WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN MOST PROUD ABOUT REGARDING HIP HOP?

AND THAT'S NOW ABOUT TO BE 50 YEARS OLD?

- WELL, HIP HOP IS KIND OF LIKE MANY CONVERSATIONS, BRAGGING, BOASTING, BUT ESSENTIALLY, WHICH WE DO, WHEN, WHEN WE TALK, MAN.

- AS WE SHOULD, - I DID THIS, I WENT HERE MAN, NO YOU DIDN'T.

(BOTH LAUGHING) - YOU KNOW, AND SO HIP HOP HAS MANY DIFFERENT CONVERSATIONS.

I WAS HAPPY IN THE VERY BEGINNING.

IT PRETTY MUCH WAS VERY HIP AND COOL, NURSERY RHYMES.

- [MIKE] YEAH.

- AND, BUT THEN I FELT LIKE MAN, IF SOMEBODY WOULD COME AND DO SOMETHING REALLY SERIOUS, REALLY RELEVANT.

I FELT THAT, THAT WAS COMING.

I JUST HAD AN INSTINCT OF IT.

- [MIKE] YEAH.

- AND THAT RECORD WAS THE MESSAGE, MELLE MEL, AND GRANDMASTER FLASH AND THE FURIOUS.

I MEAN, THEY BUILD LIKE THE, BUT IT'S ESSENTIALLY MELLE MEL ON THAT RECORD, "DON'T PUSH ME, CAUSE I'M CLOSE TO THE EDGE", YOU KNOW.

- "I'M TRYING NOT TO LOSE MY" - OKAY, "IT'S LIKE A JUNGLE SOMETIMES, IT MAKES ME WONDER".

SO THAT RECORD PAINTED SUCH A VIVID PICTURE.

♪ DON'T PUSH ME ♪ ♪ CAUSE I'M CLOSE TO THE EDGE ♪ ♪ I'M TRYING NOT TO LOSE MY HEAD ♪ ♪ IT'S LIKE A JUNGLE SOMETIMES IT MAKES ME WONDER ♪ ♪ HOW I KEEP FROM GOING UNDER ♪ ♪ IT'S LIKE A JUNGLE SOMETIMES IT MAKES ME WONDER ♪ ♪ HOW I KEEP FROM GOING UNDER ♪ - AND IT GAVE YOU, EVERYBODY HAD CHILLS.

CAUSE IF YOU WAS ON THE STREETS, THAT'S WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE.

BROKEN GLASS EVERYWHERE.

I MEAN IT WAS BROKEN GLASS IN ALL THE HOODS, PEOPLE DRINKING CHEAP WINE.

AND, I MEAN, SO THAT RECORD CAPTURED IT.

AND THAT WAS A SPOT THAT ELEVATED THE ENTIRE FORUM THAT, WE CAN DO THE FUN PARTY THING, FEEL GOOD, THROW YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR.

EVERYBODY SAY, HO.

BUT THEN IT BECAME A THING WHERE YOU CAN TELL A MORE SERIOUS, STORY.

- BESIDES TELLING THE STORY AND THE STORY BE CAPTIVATING IT'D BE ABSO- THERE ARE STORYTELLERS IN HIP HOP I PRIDE MYSELF ON BEING ABLE TO TELL A COOL NARRATIVE IN A FEW RECORDS BUT WHEN YOU START TALKING ABOUT MELLE MEL WHEN YOU START TALKING ABOUT SCHOOLLY D KRS-ONE, SCARFACE, BIGGIE, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SLICK RICK PEOPLE WHO CAN LITERALLY PULL YOU INTO A WORLD.

YOU SUSPEND DISBELIEF.

AND FOR THREE MINUTES, YOU'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF A WORLD.

THE MC CURRENTLY A LOT OF TIMES IS NOT SEEN AS AN ARTIST BUT YOU HAVE HAD THE FORESIGHT EVERY STEP OF THE WAY IN THE 70'S, 80'S, 90'S, INTO THE 2000'S TO PRESENT HIP HOP AS A CULTURE - YEAH.

- AS AN ART BUT YOU SAW RAPPERS AS ARTISTS EVEN BEFORE SOME OF THEM SAW THEMSELVES AS ARTISTS.

WHAT GAVE YOU THAT FORESIGHT AND WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE ART?

- WELL, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THAT HAS TO DO WITH MY- I'M BLESSED.

THE HOUSEHOLD I GREW UP IN MY PARENTS AND THEIR FRIENDS.

MY DAD WAS KIND OF IMMERSED IN THE JAZZ SCENE NOT AS A MUSICIAN, HE WAS JUST LIKE HE GREW UP CLOSE TO MAX ROACH, WHO BECAME MY GODFATHER.

- MAX ROACH IS YOUR GODFATHER - YEAH.

REST IN PEACE.

GOOGLE THAT.

BOTH MAX ROACH AND MY DAD SHARE THE SAME BIRTHDAY JANUARY 10TH.

AND SO IN THE HOUSE REALLY COOL, REALLY HIP, BUT ALSO VERY INTELLECTUAL.

AND I PICKED UP SNIPPETS OF WHAT THEY TALKED ABOUT A LOT WHICH WAS HOW THEY WANTED TO CONTROL THEIR MUSIC.

THEY WANTED TO OWN THEIR OWN LABELS.

THEY WANTED TO DO ALL THOSE THINGS THAT WE CAN DO A LOT MORE OF NOW.

AND THEY WERE JUST AS INTELLIGENT AS WE ARE OR PEOPLE THAT WE ENGAGE WITH BUT THEY WERE FRUSTRATED BECAUSE THOSE TIMES, YOU KNOW.

WE'RE TALKING, THEY WERE COMING UP LATE 40'S 1950'S.

I'M A LITTLE BOY IN THE 60'S JUST HEARING 60'S, 70'S, GETTING SNIPPETS OF THIS.

AND I WAS LIKE, SO THEN I WOULD GO TO THESE PARK JAMS AND THESE PARTIES AND SEE THIS THING GOING ON IN THE RAW AND I BEGAN TO REALIZE WELL, THIS IS NOT GOING ON ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD.

THEREFORE, IT'S IMPORTANT.

AND I THINK OTHER PEOPLE SHOULD LOOK AT IT, ACKNOWLEDGE IT.

THEN I BEGAN TO REALIZE THAT WHICH LED TO THE IDEA OF HIP HOP'S FIRST MOVIE "WILD STYLE", WHICH I WAS INTEGRAL IN IS A WAY TO CREATE AND CONTROL THAT NARRATIVE BECAUSE PEOPLE, YOUNG, BLACK AND LATIN KIDS WITH A HAT ON TO THE SIDE, SNEAKERS ON STANDING IN THE B-BOY POSE WERE ALWAYS DEPICTED NEGATIVELY AS CRIMINALS IN THE PRESS.

AND THAT'S NOT WHO WE WERE.

SO I WANTED TO CHANGE THAT NARRATIVE AND GET PEOPLE TO LOOK AT WHAT WE WERE DOING IN A BETTER LIGHT.

- WITH JAZZ, THOUGH, THERE REALLY WAS LIKE YOU SAID, THE ENERGY, IF WE WANT TO DO IT OURSELVES BUT THERE WAS A POINT OF STYLE YOU HAD TO HAVE YOUR OWN STYLE.

- NO QUESTION.

- A DISCIPLINE OF MAKING SURE THAT YOU WERE RESPECTED- - YEAH.

- ON A CERTAIN LEVEL IN TERMS OF DISCIPLINE.

AND IS THAT JAZZ'S LEGACY IN HIP HOP?

BECAUSE IT DID GIVE THAT TO, IF YOU LOOK AT ARTISTS LIKE TRIBE IF YOU LOOK AT THE JUNGLE BROTHERS IF YOU LOOK AT OUTKAST WHO WERE INFLUENCED BY TRIBE THERE REALLY WAS A JAZZ PLAYERS-LIKE FOCUS ON PERFECTING YOUR OWN STYLE AND DISCIPLINE.

- THAT'S GREAT THAT YOU SAY THAT.

AND I EVEN THINK NOW CERTAIN ARTISTS HAVE A JAZZ-LIKE VIBE TO ME.

EVEN NAS WHO'S, YOU KNOW, HIS FATHER OLU DARA IS A SAX PLAYER.

- YES, YES.

- IF YOU SAW THE DOCUMENTARY HIS FATHER PUT THE RIGHT BOOKS IN FRONT OF HIM ABOUT OUR REAL HISTORY.

PLUS NAS HAD THOSE RHYTHMS AND THAT FLAVOR AND THAT STREET LIFE, AND HE SYNTHESIZED IT ALL INTO THESE AMAZING SONGS AND LYRICS THAT HE DOES.

I MEAN, ONCE AGAIN, A BIG INFLUENCE ON ME WAS WHAT THESE JAZZ GUYS AND MY DAD'S FRIENDS WERE ABLE TO DO AND OTHER THINGS THAT THEY WERE NOT ABLE TO DO.

AND I WAS ABLE TO LIKE FIGURE OUT A WAY TO MOVE AND FIND AN AUDIENCE THAT WAS RECEPTIVE.

SO THAT WAS A CRITICAL THING I DID.

AND THE RECEPTIVE AUDIENCE THAT I SOUGHT OUT AND THEN REALLY MADE SERIOUS CONNECTIONS WITH WAS THE NEW WAVE/PUNK ROCK AUDIENCE IN THE DOWNTOWN ART SCENE.

- YES.

- SO MAKING GRAFFITI WHICH I DID AS A KID BUT THEN I WANTED TO FIGURE OUT WHEN I LOOKED AT WHAT POP ART WAS I WAS LIKE, "WAIT A MINUTE WE'RE INSPIRED BY CARTOONS AND COMIC BOOKS THE SAME WAY ROY LICHTENSTEIN AND ANDY WARHOL ARE."

- YES.

- WOW.

AND WE FOLLOWED THAT.

IT'S ALMOST LIKE WE ORGANICALLY FOLLOWED THAT.

SO I FELT LIKE IF I CAN GET IN FRONT OF AN AUDIENCE AND HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS, SOMEBODY WOULD LISTEN.

AND THAT WAS THESE PEOPLE ON THE PUNK ROCK AND NEW WAVE SCENE.

AND THAT LED ME TO CONNECT WITH BLONDIE AND HIP THEM TO WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THE NIC.

THEY MADE A SONG CALLED "RAPTURE".

- YEP.

- SHOUTED ME OUT.

AND THAT BECAME THE FIRST RAP RECORD TO GO NUMBER ONE.

I DON'T CALL IT HIP HOP BUT IT DEFINITELY WAS A NICE DOSE OF DEBBIE HARRY RAPPING.

(UPBEAT MUSIC) ♪ FAB FIVE FREDDY TOLD ME EVERYBODY'S SIDE ♪ ♪ DJ'S SPINNIN' I SAID, "MY MY" ♪ ♪ FLASH IS FAST, FLASH IS COOL ♪ ♪ FRANçOIS C'EST PAS, FLASH AIN'T NO DUDE ♪ ♪ AND DON'T STOP ♪ - AND SHE PUT IT TOGETHER IN HER OWN WAY WHICH WAS REALLY FUNNY BUT ONCE AGAIN, IT OPENED DOORS AND THAT'S WHEN I CONNECTED WITH MY, MY RUNNING PARTNER BACK THEN, JOHN MICHEL BASQUIAT.

- YES.

- 'CAUSE HE'S ON THAT SCENE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET IN AS WELL.

AND WE BOTH THE SAME AGE COMING OUT OF DIFFERENT PARTS OF BROOKLYN.

AND HE SAW WHAT I SAW.

LIKE THESE PEOPLE ARE RECEPTIVE AND OPEN.

- WHAT WAS AMAZING ABOUT HIS STYLE?

- 'CAUSE NOW WE'RE TALKING VISUAL ART FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW.

YOU KNOW, OF COURSE MUSIC WAS BLONDIE AND DEBBIE HARRY BUT WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WARHOL WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BASQUIAT YOU DON'T KNOW OF THEM, YOU KNEW THEM.

WHAT WAS KNOWING BASQUIAT LIKE?

BECAUSE HE USED NOT ONLY TRADITIONAL WHAT YOU WOULD THINK WAS PAINTING METHODS, RIGHT.

HE REALLY WENT FOLK AND STREET.

LIKE HIS ART COULD BE COMPARABLE TO ANY FOLK ART WITH A SPLASH OF STREET ART RIGHT ON TOP OF IT.

AND IT WAS UNAFRAID AND IT WAS UNAPOLOGETIC AND IT WAS MORE PUNK ROCK THAN PUNK ROCK.

IT WAS HIP HOP BEFORE WE EVEN KNEW WHAT HIP HOP WAS GOING TO BE.

AND STILL TO THIS DAY, MY 14 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER SHE LIKES TO THE PURSES THAT COACH USES WITH HIS ART.

- WOW.

- SO HIS WORK IS AS TIMELESS AS VAN GOGH OR ANYONE ELSE.

WHAT WAS HE LIKE?

WHAT WAS YOU GUYS' FRIENDSHIP LIKE?

- JUST (LAUGHS) COOL, HOMIE'S, BUDDIES.

IN THE VERY BEGINNING, WE WERE SNEAKING ON THE TRAIN WE'D GET MEALS AND SHARE THE FOOD 'CAUSE WE BOTH HAD NO MONEY- - 'CAUSE ARTISTS BE POOR.

- WE WAS POOR.

WE WAS TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT.

WE WAS TRYING TO GET INTO THE CLUBS FOR FREE BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY MONEY.

ONCE WE GOT IN GET SOME DRINK TICKETS FROM THE PROMOTERS AND STUFF A LOT OF TIMES WE'D SHOW UP AT PLACES THEY'D LOOK AT THESE TWO YOUNG BLACK KIDS "WHO ARE THEY?"

BUT THEN PEOPLE THAT KNEW WAS LIKE, WAIT A MINUTE, DO YOU KNOW WHO THAT IS?

AND WERE STILL COMING UP.

SO WE WERE JUST GOOD BUDDIES HAVING FUN, LAUGHING A LOT, CHASING GIRLS.

JUST ALL THE STUFF THAT YOUNG DUDES DO.

BUT WE WERE FOCUSED ON TRYING TO BE ARTISTS.

AND THAT DOWNTOWN SCENE IN NEW YORK WAS A FERTILE GROUND.

OPEN-MINDED PEOPLE THAT GAVE US A SHOT.

- THIS PLACE IS, I OFTEN TELL PEOPLE, THE HARLEM RENAISSANCE IF IT WASN'T A FINITE AMOUNT OF TIME.

IF IT WAS ONGOING, IF IT WAS IN PERPETUITY.

DO YOU SEE ATLANTA IN THAT WAY?

- OH WITHOUT QUESTION, COME ON.

YOU KNOW, THE GREAT MIGRATION FROM THE SOUTH TO THE NORTH TO NEW YORK, CHICAGO, ET CETERA, ET CETERA WHICH WAS THE MOST MASSIVE MIGRATION OF INCREDIBLE BOOK "THE WARMTH OF OTHER SUNS" DETAILS THAT.

AND THERE'S BEEN A REVERSE NOW WHERE SO MANY OF THOSE BLACK FOLKS THAT ARE JUST TIRED OF THOSE CRISIS AND WANT TO GET BACK AND HAVE A LITTLE MORE ROOM TO BREATHE THEY'VE COME BACK TO ATLANTA AND OTHER SOUTHERN STATES WHICH HAS BEEN A PRETTY AMAZING THING.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, I FIRST CAME DOWN HERE COVERING OUTKAST BACK WHEN I WAS HOSTING YO MTV RAPS I WENT INTO THE DUNGEON TO INTERVIEW OUTKAST AND THE OTHER GUYS HANGING AROUND WHO WERE ON THE SHOW.

THAT WAS GOODIE MOB.

I WAS LIKE, WAIT, THAT'S SO AND SO AND THIS ONE AND THAT ONE.

(BOTH LAUGH) SO I FELT THAT ENERGY, SAW THAT VIBE BUT THERE IS SOMETHING UNIQUE AND SPECIAL ABOUT ATLANTA.

- THERE REALLY IS.

- WITHOUT QUESTION.

WHICH IS WHY IT IS A MECCA IN THE SOUTH.

- I SAW YOU BE ON SCENES, RIGHT?

THIS TALL, SKINNY KID, GLASSES, ALWAYS HAD THE FEDORA.

IT WAS VERY JAZZ MUSICIAN LIFE MEETS THE STREETS.

'CAUSE YOU KNOW RUN AND THEM WAS LIKE THAT.

BUT YOU WERE ALWAYS NEXT TO WHOEVER THE COOLEST PERSON WAS BUT THEY WERE LOOKING AT YOU AS THOUGH, I'M WITH FREDDY.

SO WHEN I SEE YOU ON THE SCENE WITH WARHOL AND I SEE YOU WITH BASQUIAT AND I SEE YOU WITH DEBRA AND BLONDIE YOU LET ME KNOW THAT I BELONGED EVERYWHERE I WANTED TO BE.

- THAT'S RIGHT.

THAT'S RIGHT.

- NOT EVERYWHERE I WAS ACCEPTED, EVERYWHERE I WANTED TO BE.

YOU LET ME KNOW THAT IT WAS COOL TO BE AN ARTIST.

IT WAS COOL TO BE SMART.

IT WAS COOL TO BE ABLE TO INTERVIEW PEOPLE.

ABOUT THEM AND NOT HAVE IT ALL.

YOU HAVE BEEN ONE OF THE MOST SELFLESS PERSONS I'VE SEEN ON ANY SCENE, BUT YOU ARE ALWAYS FIRST TO THE PARTY OR ONE OF THE FIRST, AND THEN BEFORE THE PARTY DIES OUT, AND GETS LAME YOU ONTO THE NEXT PARTY.

- IT'S ACTUALLY INTERESTING YOUR OBSERVATION.

I DON'T REALLY, IT'S NOT SO MATTER OF FACT, THAT IT'S A SEEN AS SUCH YOU, SOMETIMES SOME OF THE MOVEMENTS AND THINGS I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN, I DIDN'T, YOU DON'T REALIZE WHAT WAS GOING ON UNTIL PEOPLE WRITE ABOUT THINGS 10 OR SO YEARS LATER, MAYBE LIKE, OH MY GOODNESS.

YEAH, YOU'RE RIGHT.

LIKE A LOT WAS GOING ON.

AND PEOPLE WAS MAKING INCREDIBLE MUSIC STUFF THAT HAPPENED IN DIFFERENT PHASES OF NEW YORK IN THE EIGHTIES.

AND AS THEN YOU REALIZE, YEAH, THAT WAS A VERY FERTILE PERIOD.

WHEN PEOPLE FROM DISCO CULTURE MET HIP HOP CULTURE AND PUNK ROCK, AND THEN HIP HOP HEADS, I KIND OF OPENED THAT DOOR COULD COME DOWN AND ALL INTERMIX.

WHEN YOU SEE IT END FOR, I DIDN'T, YOU KNOW, IT JUST ENDS BECAUSE YOU GOT NEW YORK, A VERY COMMERCIAL CITY RENTS GO UP.

OTHER PEOPLE WANT TO BE IN THAT SAME SPACE WHERE THEY WERE ALL THIS COOL STUFF WENT ON.

AND THEN THOSE ORIGINAL PEOPLE THAT MADE IT HAPPEN, THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO ACTUALLY BE THERE ANYMORE.

SO THEY ALL GO AND SCATTER, SO THINGS CHANGE AND MOVE AROUND FOR THAT REASON.

BUT SO MUCH OF WHAT I'VE BEEN ABLE TO DO LITERALLY GOES BACK AGAIN TO BEING AROUND LIKE MY DAD'S FRIENDS WHO WERE SUPER INTELLECTUAL, SUPER SMART AND SUPER COOL, AND IT ALSO CANNABIS AFICIONADOS AND SO THEY WERE, THEY HAD THEIR EYE AND EAR ON EVERYTHING MOVING ON THE PLANET.

- GOTCHA.

- NOT JUST IN THE HOOD, NOT JUST IN THE COUNTRY.

SO I PICKED UP ON A LOT OF THAT AND THAT'S HOW I'VE MOVED AS WELL.

JUST WANTED TO, BUT KIND OF SELFISHLY, A LOT OF THE MOVES HAVE ALSO BEEN TO PUT MYSELF IN A POSITION WHERE I CAN SHOW MY ART, BUT I ALSO WANTED TO BRING OTHER HOMIES IN WITH ME, IT WASN'T LIKE I WANTED TO GET IN AND SHUT THE DOOR.

YOU KNOW, I WANTED TO SEE MORE OF US GET TO THE TABLE.

I LEAN OVER AND DROP A LITTLE GAME.

YOU KNOW HOW WE DO.

AND GO AHEAD, BABY.

YOU KNOW, DO YOUR THING.

- THE PASSION AND LOVE.

I THINK THAT YOU'VE BEEN A LIVING, WALKING, TALKING EXAMPLE OF, BUT DURING THE PANDEMIC, EVERYTHING CLOSED.

SO THERE WAS NO SCENE.

RIGHT?

- LET ME TELL YOU WHAT HAPPENED DURING THE PANDEMIC.

- OKAY.

- AND I LOVE THIS AND IT'S SO GREAT THAT YOU BROUGHT ME TO THIS POINT BECAUSE WHEN YOU'RE UNDER PRESSURE, THAT'S WHEN REAL CREATIVITY SOMETIMES HAPPENS.

AND SO WHEN WE WOULD SHUT DOWN, TERRIFIED, LOCKED IN.

- YEAH.

- YOU SEE WHAT SWISS BEADS AND TIMBERLAND DIVERSITY, THEY KIND OF CREATED VERSUS WHEN WE WERE ALL LOOKING AT THE IPHONE AND TEDDY REILLY, COULDN'T FIGURE IT OUT AND THE TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES GOING ON, BUT IT WAS AN ENERGY AND AN EXCITEMENT.

I FELT THAT WAS AKIN TO GETTING MY HANDS IN THEM.

FIRST, EARLY HIP HOP TIPS, KNOWING LIKE THIS IS SOMETHING SPECIAL GOING ON WHEN D- NICE STEPPED UP AND STARTED JUST SPINNING, JUST BECAUSE WE HAD NOTHING ELSE TO DO.

AND A HUNDRED, 200, 300,000 PEOPLE TUNING IN PEOPLE TEXTING EACH OTHER PARTYING ALONG WITH THAT.

SO THAT TYPE OF INNOVATION INSPIRED THE HELL OUT OF ME BECAUSE IT REMINDED ME SO MUCH OF EARLY HIP HOP.

WHEN THOSE DJS BROUGHT THEM SOUND SYSTEMS OUT, BUSTED OPEN THE BASE OF A STREETLIGHT AND TAPPED IN AND TWO, 300 KIDS IN THE HOOD.

WAS PARTYING UNTIL THREE IN THE MORNING, THROWING OUT HANDS IN THE AIR.

I MEAN, THAT WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN, BUT IT DID BECAUSE WE MADE IT HAPPEN.

AND ONCE AGAIN, THROUGH THAT PANDEMIC, I GOT BUSY ON CREATING B NOBLE WAS ZOOMING IT UP WITH THIS ONE, THAT ONE LAWYERS, WHATEVER, AND THEN ENDED UP NEGOTIATING A DEAL WITH THE PEOPLE FROM CURALEAF, THE BIGGEST CANNABIS COMPANY.

SO THAT'S THE INNOVATION.

THAT'S REALLY AT THE CORE OF HIP HOP AND ONCE AGAIN, AT THE CORE OF ME AND A LOT OF THIS URBAN STUFF THAT I'VE BEEN ABLE TO DIVE INTO AND THEN HELP PUSH OUT AND PUT IN A FRAME SO THAT PEOPLE MAY LOOK, COULD LOOK AT IT AND UNDERSTAND IT IN A DIFFERENT LIGHT.

- THE FACT THAT D-NICE CALLS ME, HIS FRIEND, ALWAYS OVERWHELMED.

LIKE I TELL MY WIFE, LIKE I CAN STILL LISTEN.

MY NAME IS DINA AND SHE SHE'S JUST, SHE JUST KNOWS HIM AS THE DTI.

- TR 8-0-8.

BY THE WAY, HE WAS A YOUNG KID.

MAYBE NO ONE AT 16 OR 17 STANDING NEXT TO KRS ONE.

WHEN I DIRECTED KRS ONE'S FIRST VIDEO, MY PHILOSOPHY.

I GO BACK WITH D-NICE.

I'M SUPER HAPPY TO SEE HIM EMERGE INTO THIS HUGE NEW SPACE.

- YOU CAN TWO'S DON'T AGE.

WHAT IS THE SECRET TO ETERNAL YOUTH?

BECAUSE.

- YOU KNOW, IT'S TRUE WHAT THEY SAY, BLACK DON'T CRACK, BUT, BUT LIKE, YOU GOT TO ADD IF YOU TAKE GOOD CARE.

- GOTTA TAKE GOOD CARE AT THOUGH.

- OUTKAST HAS ONE OF THE WORLD'S BEST DJS AS THEIR DJ FOR THE LAST 20, 30 YEARS.

HIS NAME IS DJ CUT MASTER SWIFT.

HE IS AN ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY ON DJ AND ADULTNESS.

AND HE CALLED ME LAST NIGHT, HE SAID, YOU'RE INTERVIEWING FAB.

WELL, ACTUALLY WE WERE HANGING OUT.

I WAS LIKE, YEAH, HE WAS LIKE, CHANGE THE BEAT.

I WAS LIKE, YEAH.

HE WAS LIKE, THAT SONG HAS BEEN CUT SCRATCHED, USED, AND MORE AND MORE RECORDS THAN ANYTHING ELSE.

HERBIE HANCOCK USED IT.

AND THE FLOOD GATES OPENED EVERYBODY.

AND I WAS LIKE, WHAT, LIKE FIRST I WAS JUST LIKE, I THOUGHT I KNEW EVERY, THE OG HIT ME LIKE, YEAH, TELL HIM THAT'S DOPE.

- SO THAT'S THE DJ THING.

AND THE DJ THAT STARTED THAT AVALANCHE ROLLING DOWN THAT MOUNTAIN OVER 30 YEARS AGO WAS GRAHAM MIX.

WHO WAS DST WHO SWITCHED THE S TO X, SO HE'S, DXT, HE'S ACTUALLY, HERBIE HANCOCK TOLD HIM HE'S LIKE, LISTEN, I'M A PIANIST THAT GUY'S A TRUMPETIST YOU'RE A TURNTABLIST HERBIE HANCOCK, - INVENTED THE WORD TURNTABLIST?

- TO DESCRIBE WHAT DST DOES, WHOSE FAMILY WERE MUSICIANS.

SO WHEN HE WOULD CUT AND SCRATCH, HE WOULD DROP IT IN, IN THE RIGHT PLACE.

AND HE WAS SUPER PRECISE.

AND ON POINT WITH IT, LIKE A PERCUSSIONIST KNOWS WHERE TO HIT IT IN A BAND.

AND SO THAT'S WHY HERBIE PUT HIM DOWN WITH HIS BAND AND DXT CHOSE THE RECORD.

I MADE, CHANGED THE BEAT WHERE I RAPPED IN FRENCH AND ENGLISH.

IF YOU DON'T KNOW IT'S ALL ON YOUTUBE, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING?

AND HE CUT THAT.

THERE'S A WEIRD PART IN THE END OF THE RECORD, WHERE THEY RUN IT THROUGH A VOCODER AND MY VOICE GOES, AH, THIS STUFF IS REALLY FRESH, WITH A WEIRD SOUND ON IT.

AND THAT IS SYNONYMOUS WITH THE IDEA OF SCRATCHING, WHICH, TO ME, HAS BEEN JUST A BLESSING THAT BEYOND DESCRIPTION, BECAUSE WAY BEFORE EVEN MTV HAPPENING FOR ME, I KNEW THAT I CAN WALK UP TO ANY HIP HOP DJ AND SAY, DUDE, I'M FAB FIVE FREDDY AND HE DIDN'T KNOW WHO I WAS.

I'M LIKE, YO, I'M THE GUY ON THAT RECORD.

- YES.

- JUST BECAUSE IF A DJ WAS DOPE, I ALWAYS WANT TO MAKE A POINT TO GIVE THEM THEIR PROPS.

- YEAH.

- AT A PARTY WHEREVER I'M AT.

I ALWAYS WANT, BECAUSE FOR ME TO DJ WAS THE BEGINNING OF ALL OF THIS.

- YES.

WE, YOU KNOW, I KNOW THE RAPPERS BECAME THE STARS.

- BUT, DJ JAZZY JEFF, AND THE FRESH PRINCE.

(LAUGHING) - AND IT WAS ERIC B AND RAQUEL.

- AND I'M PROUD TO CALL ERIC B A FRIEND TOO ABSOLUTELY ABSOLUTELY, ERIC WILL CALL ME SOMETIMES IT'S LIKE, HOW YOU DOING?

HANG ON LIKE.... - ERIC BARRIER I KNOW HIM WELL.

- LET ME, LET ME SAY, THANK YOU.

WE ARE, WE ARE A GENERATION THAT HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR HIP HOP COULD HAVE BEEN LOST TO THE EVILS OF DRUG USAGE COULD HAVE BEEN LOST TO THE EVILS OF JUST SIMPLY A PRECEDENT UNDER REAGAN IN PARTICULAR THAT DID NOT CARE ABOUT INNER CITY AND INNER CITY CULTURE OR ARTS PROGRAMS OR THE MENTAL HEALTH OF OUR COMMUNITY.

AND WE NEEDED A GORDON PARKS AND HERE CAME A KID NAMED FREDDY WHO UNDERSTOOD THAT THE PUTTING TOGETHER OF MUSIC AND DANCE AND JOY AND VISUAL ART AND MOVIES AND HOSTING AND BEING GRACIOUS AND GIVING OTHERS OPPORTUNITY.

WE HAVE A RENAISSANCE MAN IN YOU, I VALUE YOU IMMENSELY.

OUR CULTURE VALUES YOU AND I LOOK FORWARD TO BEFORE YOU GET OUT OF HERE ON US WATCHING TRULY MORE DOCUMENTARIES PRODUCED BY YOU AND PRODUCED ON YOU AND MORE BECAUSE OUR GENERATION NEEDED A GORDON PARKS.

WE NEEDED SOMEONE WHO WOULD PRESENT US IN AN ARTISTIC AND BEAUTIFUL WAY.

AND YOU HAVE DONE THAT EVERY STEP OF THE WAY IN EVERY PARTICULAR GENRE.

SO I WANT TO GIVE YOU MORE THAN YOUR FLOWERS, BUT YOUR ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS AND BLESSINGS.

- THANK YOU.

THAT WAS, THAT WAS ENOUGH FLOWERS.

THAT WAS A WHOLE FLORIST.

(LAUGHS) THANK YOU SO MUCH.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

I APPRECIATE THAT.

- LOVE AND RESPECT, YES SIR.

- AND THANK YOU ALL FOR TUNING IN.

- LOVE AND RESPECT WITH KILLER MIKE IS MADE POSSIBLE BY.

(UPBEAT MUSIC) (UPBEAT MUSIC)