announcer: "Theatre Corner" is brought to you by California Center for the Arts, Escondido; University of Cincinnati Helen Weinberger Center for Drama and Playwriting; Del Cerro Tax; Backlot Pictures; The Mental Bar; and viewers like you.

Thank you.

announcer: Please welcome to the stage your host of "Theatre Corner" michael taylor.

♪♪♪ michael taylor: Welcome to "Theatre Corner."

I'm your host, michael taylor.

"Theatre Corner" is an interview series dedicated to promoting diversity and inclusion throughout the national theatre scene.

Tonight we're filming in front of a live audience made up of theater students at the California Center for the Arts in Escondido, California.

So silence your cell phones, folks.

You're entering "Theatre Corner."

♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ michael: Our first guest is a author and professor.

Please welcome Dr. Sharell D. Luckett.

Sharell.

♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ michael: First and foremost, we got to talk about this book because it's important, you know, "Black Acting Methods."

And this is one of your publications.

What are Black acting methods?

Sharell D. Luckett: Oh, thank you for asking.

Thank you for having me here.

Black acting methods are culturally Black ways of approaching actor training and performer training.

So when you--so for instance when you think about how we're taught to work with scripts in the theater, folks who route their methodologies in the field of Black acting methods actually usually don't start with the script.

We go back to Black cultural values via West African cultural values connecting to oral tradition.

So we actually like to devise and create a lot of work that is not script-base.

It may get scripted later, but that's not our first go-to.

Also, spirituality enters the space, whether that's pouring libations.

Libations is a process of pouring water--blessing the water into a plant, which represents growth, and you call on your ancestors and spirits to come into the room to help you bless the space and bless the work that you're about to do.

And you also find a lot of community ensemble values.

So it's not individualistic.

That's another culture.

When you look at Black cultural values, I and we are the same thing.

So I'm only as strong as you are.

michael: That's what's up.

And so it's not only a book, but it's also a center, a training center.

Sharell: Yeah, a studio.

So the book was released in 2016 and it was actually doing really well before the pandemic, right?

And the pandemic hit, and then, I guess, all of America--all of American theatre got interested in how we can better serve people from the global majority, Black people as well.

And there was one book that existed in contemporary times and that was "Black Acting Methods."

And so it made the book the number one bestselling book in the field of theatre, which is a feat for a book that is rooted in Black Studies, and so out of that sprang an acting studio called the Black Acting Methods Studio.

Maybe in the past three years we've served eighty five hundred theatre students and educators.

And so we go around the nation and now the globe.

I just got back from Ghana, meeting with professors at Ghana as well about "Black Acting Methods."

So the studio is important.

And we also have a mental health specialist, an actual licensed clinical psychologist 'cause I--it's interesting folks talk about mental health a lot in the Black community.

And what's striking to me is that we listen to celebrities, and they have no training.

Like, folks go to school and train for this, right?

So why are we listening to celebrities?

Not that they don't have anything great to say, but I want to listen to somebody who's actually trained in this in a Black psychological framework.

So we have a clinical psychologist in the studio that actually sees people.

michael: Tell me about this solo performance that you've written and produced.

I mean, not everyone can do a solo performance.

I mean, that's difficult, to hold something for 90 minutes.

Tell me about that piece.

Sharell: Yeah, so I have a one woman show called "Young, Gifted, and Fat" and-- michael: Based on-- Sharell: Yeah, "Young, Gifted, and Black," absolutely.

So what many might not know about me is that I used to operate in the world as a fatter--much fatter woman.

And in the fat studies community there's actually a field of folks that advocate for the rights of fat people.

So I use that word endearingly, right?

In the field of fat studies there are a few Black women voices talking from the vantage point of performance.

So what happened to me is that I actually have experience living in both worlds.

So I was what some might call a morbidly obese woman or a very fat woman, and I went on a diet, and when I went on a--so as a morbidly obese very fat woman, I was always playing roles of the mother, right, or the fat sister that makes all the jokes.

Well, what happened is I lost right at 100 pounds, and I started to go out on auditions as a smaller woman, and it blew my mind.

So I started being the lead role in--like, I'm just going to say Halle Berry.

I'm not saying I look like her.

Shout out to Halle.

But I started playing lead roles that were sexually desirable, and I was like, "What is going on?

I'm fat, right?"

So even though I was smaller, my mind hadn't caught up with my body, and I call it performing slenderness.

And so I started--I went on this investigation to figure out what it meant to have thin privilege.

So that led to me to write a one woman show called "Young, Gifted, and Fat" where I talk about that whole process that I just described.

michael: Are you still performing this piece or is that just--it's on the shelf or?

Sharell: Not on the shelf.

I will, but "Black Acting Methods" just kind of took off, you know, but "Young, Gifted, and Fat" is still there.

I feel like I still got it in me.

I don't know about the young part, but I think folks will ride with me.

You know what I mean?

But I still have it in me.

I probably will do it again.

michael: So what would you say about Black actors playing Shakespeare?

Because, I mean, it's no secret that a lot of Black actors are told, you know, in code, "You know, you don't fit.

You know, you don't necessarily have the chops in a way."

What would you say to those Black actors or about that topic of playing Shakespearean roles?

Sharell: It's the value system.

If you give Shakespeare that value and you feel like you haven't arrived until you're able to do what folks's term heightened language, you're going to have issues.

I finally--I don't have anything against Shakespeare, you know.

We actually talk about Shakespeare in the book a little bit with Justin Emeka, right, but one day I was just like, "You know what, y'all?

I just really don't know what he's saying."

And it was just a honest--you know what I mean?

And I'm not connecting with the write like that and I'm not--I don't want nobody to put me in a workshop so they can help me connect to it, right?

I'm just used to I want to read something I know what they saying.

Yes?

And I started to become comfortable with that.

So it's your value system.

If you are valuing that you have arrived or you are not an actor until you do Shakespeare, that's on you.

That's your value system you've chosen, which is usually whiteness, right?

Listen to all of the beautiful stuff that Black folk do at slam poetry, regular poetry, rap music.

I mean, you know what I mean?

It's so like the iambic pentameter is weird to me.

It's always been weird to me that folks will sit down and be like da da, da da, da da.

And I was like, "What?"

The first time I encountered it I was like, "What in the world is going--what?"

You know, many people will say Black folks already speak with rhythm.

We got it.

You know what I mean?

We do it all the time, right?

Not stereotyping Black people, but it is a part of Black culture.

So it's just the value system.

For the Black folks that love Shakespeare, do it, you know, and be okay with not loving Shakespeare and finding something else that you really, really can cling on to.

michael: I think we're going to open it up for questions from the audience.

speaker: You talk about value system.

How would you advise young performers on how to find their values?

Sharell: Getting in touch with your culture, surrounding yourself with images that look like you and people who you aspire to be like, and doing a lot of reading.

I have my own acting methodology and one of the pillars is resuscitation, and so I believe that in the craft of acting that reading and writing and creating is critical, but I feel like we don't read enough.

I'm not saying that people don't read, but I feel like we don't read enough, you know.

As Toni Morrison would tell people, "It's all in my books," you know?

I think if we read more and looked more at those historic YouTube videos of like Lorraine Hansberry talking to folks about Black Lives Matter basically in the '60s and it's like she could be saying this right now today and it would be no difference.

Reading is important so you know how to move forward.

So I would say read, and surround yourself by your culture and folks who look like you, and get to love your culture, and be invested in your culture if you're not already.

michael: Thank you so much for coming and gracing this seat at "Theatre Corner."

I really appreciate you and you're definitely going to have to come back.

Sharell: I will.

Thank you for having me.

michael: Thank you.

Sharell: Okay.

michael: All right, Dr. Sharell D. Luckett.

Sharell: I appreciate it.

♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ michael: Our next guest is an actor, professor, writer Kathryn Smith-McGlynn.

Let's take a look at her work.

Jen: Okay, close your eyes.

Close your eyes and keep them closed.

Margaret: Okay.

Jen: I was going to wait to see if we ever made it to Inverness, but.

Okay.

All right.

Okay, open them.

Open your eyes.

Margaret, will you search for the huge unknown thing out there waiting for you with me for the rest of our lives?

Margaret: Oh my god.

I'm-- Jen: If you say you are so, so flattered.

Margaret: No, no, no.

I say yes.

I say yes.

Jen: Yeah?

Margaret: I say yes.

Jen: Yes?

Margaret: Yes.

michael: Very good.

Kathryn Smith-McGlynn.

Please let's welcome her to the stage.

♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ michael: Kathryn, I just read off the many tasks that you maintain.

So tell me about the main thing.

Perhaps acting?

Kathryn Smith-McGlynn: Yes, acting.

Acting has been the through line, you know.

I mean, life is not linear, right?

But, you know, if I--you know, acting for me, gosh, my first role was I was ten years old, Aunt Polly in "The Adventures of Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn."

So I've been doing it for a long time, professionally since I was 21, right after undergrad.

michael: At one time you were a puppeteer.

Tell me about this experience as a puppeteer.

Kathryn: I was, I was, that was my-- michael: Basically you've done it all.

Kathryn: I've done it all.

It's not linear, michael.

It's not linear.

I, right after undergrad--go blue.

Wolverines.

Right after I graduated I--it was my first professional gig and it was as a puppeteer and hand and rod puppets, body puppets.

I learned how to use the puppets in a way that is true to the puppet.

You talk about truth, you know?

And it's a skill, you know?

It's a skill not only embodying the character of the puppet, but just making sure that the puppet's mouth is speaking the way that a person would speak.

You know, you open up on the vowels and everything.

It's an art.

It was great.

I performed in--that was in Cincinnati, Ohio.

michael: Is that something that enhanced your acting?

Kathryn: Yes, I think so.

It helps me, yeah, be more adept at formulating characters, you know?

I mean, if you can put voice to something furry that's sitting on your hand and make it real, then it can only enhance, you know?

michael: At what point did you start the theater company?

Kathryn: Oh, Frontera Rep.

I started that theater company in, I want to say, 2012.

When I started my family, my husband and I, our son Aiden came into the world and we were living in New York, and we were, you know, changing baby diapers on the subway and, you know, on the--you know, we're, you know, trying to, "Oh, get off at the next stop."

And you're, like, changing diapers.

We said, "Okay, this is got to be a better way.

We can't do this right now."

So we ended up moving to El Paso, Texas from New York City, which is right in the middle of the desert, a beautiful town.

And here I am and I was committed to being a stay-at-home mum, and that lasted for a couple of months until I thought I got to do something, you know?

And so I was looking around for, "What can I do here?"

And I found that there was a need for theater arts there and there's--the University of Texas has a branch there.

And I began teaching there at UTEP, which is a great school, and actually formed a collaboration with the theatre and dance department there whereby my theatre company employed not only professional actors but also served as a conduit for the candidates, the bachelor candidates in the program that were able to apprentice with--along with professionals.

And there was not a professional equity theatre company within hundreds of miles there.

I was able to really add to the economic landscape there, the cultural landscape there.

And the desert really is a beautiful place.

It really is a beautiful place.

And El Paso has my heart.

michael: Tell me about your advice of creating where you are?

Kathryn: Yes, well, I think about New York, Hollywood, you know, Chicago, I cut my teeth first.

Of course, I went to Cincinnati and then I went to Chicago, you know, and I was there.

I came out to L.A. for a bit.

I went to New York.

You know, I was in D.C.

I feel that you don't have to have that destination.

"I have to go to this place in order to make it, you know?

Make it in--I've got to go to the 'Great White Way.'

I've got to go to Broadway.

I've got to be on Broadway, you know, or I've got to go to L.A." My advice for anyone really that wants to be an artist, an actor, or any type of theater artist, or visual art, performing art is be where you are.

michael: There you go.

Be where you are.

Kathryn: You know, be where you are.

There is great art happening in these small enclaves, these small cities and communities.

And anyone that you see out there that whether it's Lynn Nottage, you know, you've got Nambi E. Kelley out there, all of these great playwrights and artists that are making great work, they started out where they were, you know?

And, you know, contribute to your community, and from there you will--you'll start here, and from there it will just reverberate exponentially, you know?

And yes, that may take you to New York City, you know, it may take you to Hollywood, you know, or you may end up staying where you are and then going out to those places.

That can be your center.

But I think everyone needs a theater home to call theirs, and I'm lucky enough to call several places.

michael: So I'd love to hit you with the advice you'd give to your 18-year-old self 'cause I think you have an interesting answer.

Kathryn: I--okay, 18.

Because 18 is what?

You're graduating from high school.

If you're going--if you choose to go to university you may be a freshman.

And I remember that very vividly, and I would say if there are any doors that you would like to open, go ahead and open them, you know?

It doesn't have to be one.

You now, it's a time for exploration and discovery, right?

I think all your life is.

But there were doors that I wish I would have opened, you know, that I was like, "Do I knock?"

I was like, "You know what?

I'm doing this door over here.

So I'm going to go over here, you know?"

And I wish I would have gone back and just said, "Okay."

You know, and just knock on the door.

michael: And then let's take it to ten years forward, and is that advice the same to the 28-year-old you?

Kathryn: Well, I think that's a through-line, absolutely.

You know, you have to remember the advice you give to yourself.

You know, it doesn't--you add on to it, you don't change it.

You add on to it, right?

So I would say to my 28-year-old self, "Trust in the fact that you know what you know.

You know what you know.

You know, you've been out there for a while and, you know, you're always going to run into forces that are going to say, you know--" I mean, there's just a lot of rejection in this business.

There's a lot of rejecting-- rejection in life, okay?

And you can be made to think, "Well, gosh, what's wrong?

Did I--I'm not good enough.

Okay, all right, let me go over here and do this and then I'll come back and I'll be good enough, you know.

Not good enough?

Oh, okay.

Well, okay, let me go over here and then I'll get this piece of paper and I'll come back.

And then I'll be good enough?

Okay, I'll get this infor--I'll get this experience and then I'll be good enough."

And then you realize, "Wait a minute.

What's going on here, you know?"

Doors that you feel should be flying open for you that may not, you know, and you might question yourself, question your abilities, you know, and then you realize as you meander a little bit older into your 30s, you go, "Wait a second.

I knew what I knew, you know?

Why didn't--what?

What?"

You know?

And so there are so many of us walking around, we're over educated, we're over experienced, we're--because we're trying to prove, "Yeah, yeah, I'm good enough.

I'm good enough, right?

Oh, wait I'm--" You know, but I love that the new generation, the millennials are coming up and they're just like, "Yeah, I'm an expert.

Yes, I am."

You know?

So you have to trust that you know what you know.

So just keep moving forward.

michael: Right, right.

Tell me about your experience on "Grey's Anatomy."

I mean, that's kind of a--that's a long running show, Debbie Allen directing.

Kathryn: Let me tell you I have a story about that.

I met Shonda Rhimes before Shonda Rhimes was Shonda Rhimes.

michael: Oh, okay.

Kathryn: I did.

I mean, every actor has a story, right, where they auditioned for something and didn't get it.

That was mine.

I auditioned for the role of Meredith Grey.

Well, that's the side that they gave me, the copy, and I-- and it took me a while to remember like, "Oh, wait.

Oh, right.

That was--I remember.

That was--yes.

And that was Shonda Rhimes.

I met Shonda Rhimes.

I was in her office and I auditioned for her.

Oh my goodness."

You know?

And I got a call-back and everything.

I didn't--obviously, I'm not--I was not Meredith Grey.

I did not get that role, but fast forward I was called in for actually a really great episode because it was the--they call it the Japril.

April and Jackson.

Jackson and April.

And they were getting divorced.

Yeah, they call them Japril.

You know, Ja-April.

Get it, Japril?

I played April's lawyer in that episode, and that was great.

I mean, it's--you know, sometimes you come on to a set of a long-running series like that that, you know, the wheels are already turning.

You know, it's a machine.

It's well-oiled, you know?

And what I loved about it, it was just so--there was also welcoming, Jesse Williams, you know, and no one looked down on you because you were down here on the call sheet, you know?

It was, "Oh, welcome, you know, fellow artist.

You know, come on in, you know?"

And yeah, that was a really great, great experience.

michael: Very good.

Kathryn: Yeah.

michael: Let's open it up for questions for Kathryn.

speaker: Hi, Kathryn.

Kathryn: Hi.

speaker: Thank you for your advice about being unafraid to open doors.

Now, I'm curious what's the best advice someone ever gave you?

Kathryn: I would say my mom, Dorothy.

Her best advice to me was that I'm enough, you know?

I'm--you know, I have a tendency to try to over, you know, give and--you know, and she reminds me always that I'm enough just who I am, you know?

"But, mum, do I need to straighten my hair?

Do I need to--you know, maybe I need to change my image.

What do I need to do to be able to--you know, be over there?"

And she's like, "Kathryn, you're enough, honey.

Just be you."

speaker: I love that.

michael: Very good.

Thank you so much for coming to "Theatre Corner," Kathryn: Thank you for having me.

michael: and enhancing the set.

So we'll be watching you and your theater journey, and I really appreciate you, and, Kathryn, thank you so much.

[audience applauding] michael: Thank you for joining us for another episode of "Theatre Corner" and we'll see you next time.

♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ announcer: Support for this program comes from the KPBS Explore Local Content Fund, supporting new ideas and programs for San Diego.

♪♪♪ ♪♪♪