For me, it is time for Community Corner and we to take some of this to donate Life Colorado.

Something that we can do to help each other be successful and especially after we're gone.

We are all out here to help you.

There are people that love you that you have never even met.

Come on home.

Mailman on Denver's Urban Alternative one two, four seven to drop.

Music runs deep.

Since I was young, pleasantly surprised.

That cool, that cool was here.

And then, Denver has such a vibrant jazz scene.

Do you believe Hamilton has changed the way people see history?

I think this musical, allows people to separate the idea of the founding Fathers on this pedestal.

And can see them as people living today.

What will we find if we dig a bit deeper?

Oh.

Oh, look, he's getting up.

There's nothing wiser than a wolf.

Disagreement is endemic, and essential to a democracy.

Printing a paper is old school.

Paying for a building all the time on a main street is old school.

But I think it's really important.

We're the first state to ever require every jail to have an in-person voting event.

Everybody has a contribution to this incredible story about Pueblo, Chile.

God knows how I will expand.

I would like to to leave a legacy here.

In this podcast, a little joy cast to tell ten minute stories about finding moments of joy with children and the grown ups in their lives all over Colorado.

Now there ain't nothing more.

So let me say.

Good evening and welcome.

Welcome to the Buell Public Media Center.

And if I did not have a chance to meet you when you came in tonight, I'm Kim Salvaggio.

I am the Chief Community Officer here for Rocky Mountain Public Media.

That is, PBS.

It is KUVO Jazz and 104.7 The Drop.

So welcome to our home here.

And, I'm really excited for this event tonight, so I wanted to just take a moment and recognize the collaboration that we've been able to have with the Colorado Ballet.

The Colorado Ballet is a testament to the power of the arts, to inspire, to educate and to unite people from all walks of life.

The ballet has been a long standing example of artistic excellence and cultural enrichment, and the commitment of storytelling through dance and movement.

It not only elevates performing arts, but it really does reflect the beauty, the diversity and the creativity of human expression.

I do work on a project that is around civility in the state of Colorado, and I have learned more than anything that when we have art that unites us, we find so much more commonality.

And this is one of the reasons I've been so thankful for our partnership with The Ballet.

So as we join here tonight, this is a celebration.

It is a celebration of the shared values of collaboration.

And that inclusion and the belief that arts have the power to foster empathy.

So thank you all for being here tonight.

Thank you to our partners of the Colorado Ballet.

It has been an amazing and wonderful partnership.

So please join me in welcoming the Colorado Ballet to the Buell Media Center and someone I now say a friend, Sameed Afghani.

Thank you so much for your work and dedication for Coloradans.

It is a thrill to be here with you this evening.

So thank you and welcome.

Good evening and welcome.

I'm Sameed Afghani, Executive Director of Colorado Ballet.

And, I want to also echo, thanks to Rocky Mountain PBS, Kim and the entire staff here for making this incredible evening possible.

I'd also like to express my deep gratitude and thanks to our presenting sponsors of Casanova Victoria and Sam Phares.

Thank you for your incredible generosity and for allowing us to bring this production to Denver.

I speak for the entire organization when I say how excited and proud we are to be presenting Casanova at the Elli Caulkins Opera House in just about two weeks.

It's in one sense it's important because it is a, as you'll see, a raw, relevant, emotional piece of work.

But also because it continues one of our core mission and values, which is bringing new works to Denver, staying relevant in the industry, and doing our part to ensure that art seeks new audiences and we broaden our audiences.

So now, we have a very brief video that features a behind the scenes look at the rehearsal process of Casanova and features some incredible, inspiring words by the choreographer Kenneth Tindall.

I think, at it's inception.

I think we need more new stories.

Stories that are untold in ballet.

So the first thing I knew I wanted to do when I was commissioned for a full length ballet was find a title that didn't exist in our genre and our medium.

And after lots of research, I finally landed on the title Casanova.

And as I began to look further into, this character, this person, this kind of incredible human, and it became clear that there was an excellent... an excellent vehicle for ballet.

I would say that it explores all of humanity, the very highest highs and the very lowest lows.

And all the universal themes of love, death, life, laughter.

And then it's set against this incredible backdrop of Venice and Paris.

At the end of the day what inspires me most is to tell stories, and I'm really passionate about the time we're in and about what we can tell and what can be put on stage, and how we challenge that.

I wouldn't say you will see all the traditional ballet language, some as you know it, some as it's been evolved or bended or molded or played with, extrapolated from the classical canon.

And then there's absolute theater involved in this.

There's crossover with contemporary.

I think what happens is you have your career, you have your life, and you take your choices, your esthetics, and the things that I love and enjoy about theater, music and art outside of my own artform.

I then what happens is I try to absorb it and bring it in, to tell the story in the best way I can.

And sometimes I don't always feel like it's just the classical steps that can do that.

So yes, there is mime.

Yes, there is theater.

And I think I'll constantly experiment with the best ways of telling stories and being a clear communicator.

Good evening everyone.

I am so excited for tonight.

And for Casanova in a couple weeks.

My name is Amber Coté.

I'm the Senior Director of Community Relations for Rocky Mountain Public Media.

And we welcome you to our space tonight.

I'll be moderating the discussion here, and I won't take up too much time and space because, you know, we want to hear from everyone here.

So I'm going to invite you all to first introduce yourselves and talk a little bit about your role with this ballet.

We'll start with you, Jonnathan.

Hi, everybody.

My name is Jonnathan Ramirez, and I am a dancer with the Colorado Ballet.

I've been with the company for four years now, and I will be playing the role of, Casanova.

Thank you.

Hi, everyone.

I'm Ariel McCarty.

I am a dancer at Colorado Ballet.

I've been with the company for about seven years now.

And I'll be dancing the role of M. M. Good evening, I'm Ian Kelly.

I'm, theater writer and, film writer and also historian.

And I wrote the, biography of Casanova on which this ballet is based.

And I co-wrote, with Kenneth Tindall.

The original scenario for this ballet.

Gil Boggs, Artistic Director.

And I'm the one who decided to do this ballet.

Thank you, Gil.

We'll actually start with you.

So glad you were already standing.

So tell us why you chose to program this ballet.

And why do you feel it's important for our audiences to experience Casanova?

So back, 2016, 2017, the organization was growing very well.

And we decided that we wanted to go from four productions to five productions each season, which was a large leap for us.

And in that decision making, we decided that at this slot and this time of the year that we wanted to do something more like a B ballet, a B full length ballet.

You know, we have Swan Lake, Sleeping Beauty earlier this year, well known ballets.

And so I wanted to program challenging ballets that people didn't know the name about.

But, you know, also weren't just fluff ballets, if you will.

I wanted to bring in something that obviously challenged the audience, and it would, you know, we need to develop it's the lifeblood of the art form to bring in new works.

And we also need to keep reinventing for our audience and bring in a younger audience as well.

So if you look at our Dracula, if you look at Jekyll and Hyde last year that we did and now Casanova.

I think it's speaking to another generation as well as all of our faithful.

Thank you all very much for coming.

But, I think it sets the company apart and it shows the diversity of these dancers that we have, which is, pretty spectacular.

Thank you.

Ian.

What drew you to Casanova as a subject?

And what surprised you most during your research?

The, the book, was from around about, 2008 nine.

I think it came out in the States in 2010.

So it's a little while ago now, but it was, the third of, a series of books I wrote around, 18th century figures.

But I suppose partly out of a fascination for some ideas, born of, 18th century, city culture, Paris and, and London, Venice, Saint Petersburg.

So on.

But I am, I should say, I came across the, the specifics of elements of this new take on Casanova.

Because I'd previously written a book about, Carême, the chef and, founder of French gastronomy, which is about to head your way, actually, on Apple TV as a TV series.

But I came across, Casanova, first of all, as a food writer, because all the references to 18th century food, in London and Paris and Saint Petersburg, Venice, it was all Casanova.

He was a passionate, traveler and travel writer, but also a passionate food writer.

And quite often, those stories were linked to that for which he has become more famous, which I'll talk about in a bit, maybe.

But it was it was that really?

So I was initially inspired to try a kind of a new take on him because I knew some of the legend.

But what in inspire me constantly through my research was that there was so much more, about him, his, his memoir, the histoire de ma vie, the history of my life.

It's the first great sort of modern memoir, and it, tells everything about being alive in this fascinating century.

But it also is very much the stuff, potentially of, of drama too.

Thank you.

I know everyone is so eager to hear more from you, so we'll be coming back to you very quickly.

I have some questions for you all as dancers.

First, how do you embody such a layered historical figure or the people around him through your performance?

Okay.

Well, M.M.

is, nice because she's very specific.

She is, the kind of woman who, at least in my opinion, very much knows what she wants from Casanova, which, is seems to be different than the other women.

She, is a little schemy, and she is.

She has, a depth to her, which is really interesting, especially for a woman of that age, being a nun.

So that helped me a lot getting into that character of thinking of why she is doing this for who she is doing this.

And it was exciting to do something, even though the ballet is called Casanova, she is very much in her own power.

And I think that is a really fun experience to have with Casanova and.

Yeah.

For me was a little bit different.

For me, I had to actually do a lot of research on the who Casanova was.

I mean, as we all know, when we hear Casanova, there is that one thing that always comes to mind.

I came to find out he was a very, brilliant, smart man that did a lot different.

More things than, you know, than what he's known for.

So for me, it was very, very interesting to to know that, you know, I didn't want to just only get into this character and just judge this character on just that one thing.

I wanted to really get a deep sense of, who he was, to better understand why he became the way or did the things he did.

Yeah.

Thank you so much.

I actually, I think just from from both of your answers, I have, another question for you.

Were there particular scenes or moments that felt especially powerful or personal to you to perform?

With M.M., the scene, the way, our pas de deux starts, is very is also starkly different than, a lot of moments in the ballet.

It's very quiet and it's very much informing the audience of her power.

Because again, it's about Casanova, but she takes the tension, you know, she has this beautiful costume, and it's, she she's almost like a panther.

The way she commands the stage, the way she commands him.

And that, for me, was very powerful.

To have that quite a bit of time to really set the tone before this, like, beautiful explosion.

For me, I don't think I have for that one scene.

I mean, I have so many scenes in this ballet.

And every scene is so... Every scene is different in its own way.

My pas de deux with Ariel thats a moment where I need to be so vulnerable.

I have another pas de deux where I find the love of my life and I just fall deeply in love.

There are other scenes where you just have to let go.

For me, every scene is just so different that its hard for me to really have that one.

That's totally understandable.

Thank you.

Gil, I have another question for you.

What role does programing new works play in keeping history and classical stories alive and accessible for modern audiences?

Nice question.

Well, I think, you know, we've we've all done classical ballet.

And as Jonnathan said earlier today, I love this work.

This is so inventive, and there's a lot of work, especially for the men in this.

And I think what makes it relevant is that the story that Kenneth has told, the choreography that is used, is so of today.

And even though it's 1700s set, you know, it's the choreography, it's relevant to our lives today.

And I think it transcends into the audience the choreography that is there.

Thank you.

Ian.

Venice, in Casanova's time, was heavily influenced by the Catholic Church and its moral authority.

So how does that historical backdrop intent add tension and depth to this history?

One thing Kenneth and I wanted to do constantly was to, surprise.

People think they know this man.

They think they know this, this legend.

But there's other ways to, to to look at it.

And, I mean, really, the great big elephant in the room is around, Casanova and sex, obviously, because it's some it's sort of a it's it's the hovering question why this man who wrote 42 books and eight opera libretti and could speak six languages and corresponded with Voltaire and Rousseau and Catherine the Great and Frederick the Great, and, Benjamin Franklin, Samuel Johnson.

Why this, man who, traveled, 78,000 miles.

It's been estimated over the course of a long lifetime.

But in an era when it's usually accounted, you know, that it would take as long to travel in the day, the distance we'd now expect to travel in an in an hour.

You know why?

This man, who was so brilliant and did so much, is now only remembered because he slept around a bit and then maybe made the signal mistake of writing about that.

But, advice to us all, except to say, you know, he would be appalled, by his, currency and, and and, reputation in the modern world.

He was a fiercely proud polymath and intellectual.

And he was also fascinated by religion.

So, we start off the ballet with him as a seminarian.

He trained for the priesthood.

He was one of history's great failed priests.

He failed spectacularly.

He fails upwards, as they say.

Anyway, so it was, around that that we, we wanted to to start the ballet because I think to understand the 18th century as well as to understand Venice of that period, you have to understand this, revolution, this the 18th century, the, industrial revolution, the Scientific revolution, the French Revolution, the American Revolution, also a sexual revolution, the first sexual revolution, not the 1960s, but maybe the 1750s, and therefore telling that story of the world he comes from, which is, soaked in the, rituals of the Catholic Church, but also Venice is this bizarre, duality of, of a city, because on one level, it has this reputation as the Vegas of 18th century Europe.

It is the party capital and it is the theater and music capital of Europe.

But at the same time, it's almost like a theocracy.

It is presided over by these great ecclesiastical institutions, such that it's estimated that maybe a third of the female population of Venice were in holy orders like M.M.

Not necessarily, it should be said, nuns in the current meaning of the word, in that they hadn't taken vows of celibacy, which is pertinent to the story.

In any event, that was that was some of the why, I suppose that you can't really, I think, understand the revolution unless you understand where it's coming from.

And I suppose it's easy maybe in America to think of of the 18th century as something more, puritanical than it was, lived and experienced by at least the urban and, urbane cultures of, 18th century Europe.

And that's where these ideas kind of came from.

And Casanova is very mixed up in, in, in all of that, he's intensely interested in, in, in that, quotes repeatedly that, Descartes, dobito, cognito, ergo sum.

I doubt therefore I think, therefore I am.

And it's the doubting and the questioning that is absolutely key to understanding the man and the story.

And also his yearning, which comes across so beautifully in Kenneths ballet, because we talked about that right from the beginning, that that actually is the key journey that we're on as human beings.

That they're on philosophically in the 18th century, but is right at the core, it seems to me, of, of dance theater, the yearning to connect, through space.

There we go.

I'll stop at that, shall we?

I'm very interested in hearing more of your stories.

There were, folks that were talking to you before we came in that were hoping that you would just sort of extrapolate on some of the stories.

You had even started out in the in the lobby.

I don't know if you have anything just off the top of your mind you were talking about with the ballet that you'd like to share more about.

Golly, I can't remember.

I had a few conversations.

I went to wonder what was.

I said, I, I should say it's very unusual for a nonfiction writer to be asked to be involved in the fabulous world of ballet, and this has been the happiest experience of my creative life.

But initially, Kenneth Tindall came to me saying he wanted to acquire the dramatic rights to my book.

And so it's just a, you know, regular thing that happens to writers sometimes.

Dramatic rights, but not for a ballet.

But then, as it happens, I had a play on in the West End, that was based on another of my books, but another 18th century sort of explosion of ideas, partly by Benjamin Franklin.

Indeed.

And, Kenny came to see that and said, actually, what I'd really like you to do is to write the scenario for my new ballet with me.

And I immediately said, yes, because that's always the right answer to almost anything in life.

As Casanova once said.

But of course, closely followed by what's a ballet scenario?

But, I, it turned into, I mean, he moved in with, I lived in the country in Suffolk, in England at the time.

And he came and lived with my myself, and my then, young family kind of, you know, taught the kids to dance.

And we wrote the story together around a big dining table, with, amongst other things, maybe that was the story we were alluding to.

I would say, well, you know, we have to pick and choose here.

I said, you know, I initially initially I was greatly taken with him as a food writer, but obviously as the ballet, we can't have food.

And he said, just watch me.

And one of the, sexiest experiences of my life was, watching a scene.

You will know.

Well, and you will hopefully enjoy, which is when Casanova is, he's throwing a party in his kind of glory years in Paris, when he was, as it were, adopted by Madame de Pompadour.

But, the dancers are, on a table.

It's more or less a sort of an orgy.

And there's quite a lot of food around.

When we first created this, it was done with just a lot of apples, I should say.

This was pre-COVID, and, there was an element of, of improvising that kind of, encourages with dancers that some elements of the ballet.

And he said, more or less just go for it.

And, they were passing apples mouth to mouth whilst dancing, over and around the table.

It was sexy as all hell.

And, and still is.

So that might have been the story or alluding to, but, no, it was such an extraordinary journey.

And then in the initial creation of it, Kenny asked me also to work with the dancers on character.

On, on.

Indeed bits of dialog.

I'm a, I'm a playwright and screenwriter.

And then also to, show the dancers the excerpts from the memoirs that are in my book, which sometimes are dialog of what was actually said between lovers, because the other magical part of this work of dance theater, of classical ballet, is that everybody you see on stage, actually lived, lived and breathed and loved and laughed and fell in love.

And that issue of very often you can talk to dancers, which I'm doing tomorrow about as well.

What happens just before, what happens just afterwards, the world that you move into, a scene, with that is also ghosted by these real people.

And, Casanova wonderfully gives us with all sorts of details about 18th century life, how you travel, how you exchange money, what you wear, what the underwear is like.

How to take it off?

About the food.

So, but also close detail of what it's like to fall in love and then out of love, or have your heart broken.

And it's also a story and a ballet around something I was quite taken with, which was, mental health.

Really.

That also is key to his understanding, his story that he writes his great memoir, on the advice of his doctor late in life as a cure for his melancholia.

All the wonderful things you might remember of your existence, the sort of thing we will never see again.

Who has the time, to to write like that?

3,600 closely written folio pages of everything you can remember of a life intensely, well lived, as you might say, or sort of adventuresome and extraordinary.

But that also is, you know, it's not as what I come round to always trying to remind everybody of that.

He's a very important writer.

And it's an important story.

When the Bibliotheque Nationale in Paris, about a decade ago, acquired the original, the handwritten, the manuscript, they paid 7 million livre for it.

It's the most expensive 18th century document in the world.

And their argument was that there were three great documents of the enlightenment.

You know, this moment when we address the perplexing business of being human with the tools of rationalism and of reason.

And, they wrote that, the three trade documents were the encyclopedia- Diderot and Devon Bars encyclopedia.

the American Constitution and the memoirs of Giacomo Casanova.

Well, one of the issues is around that, because it is still, of course, pertinent that born of this era so much that's fascinating.

But also Casanova hinged around this issue of how you address the irrational, the spark of the irrational that comes into our lives that we call, love or, lust or Id, if we're Freudian or whatever, this idea of, kind of chaos and, Eros as, Casanova termed it, Cupid in French.

You know, this issue is, pertinent to all of this.

And, and although it was totally surprising initially because all my other books have become, you know, film or TV or theater, but this story now, I think it couldn't have been anything other than ballet.

It's about trying to connect.

It's about love.

Kenny had this wonderful line that he said, you know, ballet.

It's about the space between people, and Casanova had written something very similar at one stage, but, he's a great traveler, obviously, but, he said what really interested him wasn't geography, but the geography of the human heart.

And when he met somebody, he wanted to find out what made them unhappy and then see if he could solve it.

Which is an extraordinary idea of a kind of, you know, pathological empath, but also, explain some of this journey and some of also the power of it as, as dance theater, because we've been incredibly ambitious in narrative terms, because we're dealing with the enlightenment and sort of the idea of the world as it shifts, and we're dealing with these complicated, characters and series of, affairs and adventures, this amazing man who starts off as a priest and ends up in prison and breaks out from prison and ends up being taken up by, Madame de Pompadour and so on and so forth.

But, actually the through line is the heart kind of holds it because we attend to those stories in life and art and in particular, in, in theater, let alone something as exquisitely beautiful as, as kind of stance theater with, with this.

What was the question?

It was perfect.

Thank you, thank you.

I'm curious if either of you, Ariel, I just I was watching you as Ian was speaking, and I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on some of the things that he said.

I saw you light up when he talked about, how this story could have only been told in ballet.

And I'm just curious if you had any thoughts you want to share?

Yes.

Yeah.

Well, I really loved in the video how Kenneth said that he really wants to bring new stories.

And I feel like that really married so well with what you were describing.

And, another moment too that I really appreciated, when you were talking about the different types of love and lust, that this story explores.

I was so fortunate to get to learn Bellino, and that is a beautiful, beautiful part of this ballet.

And and our last rehearsal, we were kind of left with this thought that, you know, Casanova doesn't necessarily have to be in the most ultimate in love with her.

It's a deep love of appreciation, of seeing a similarity in someone that maybe doesn't look exactly like, you know, picture perfect.

They both have these masks on.

These identities that they're trying to conceal.

And he sees that in her, and he loves her for it.

He loves her for what she's trying to become, what she feels like she needs to do, because he very much feels the same.

And they're the last dance they do really encapsulates this.

Journey of being vulnerable, of, you know, having a moment and seeing each other and be like, you know what?

Like, let's take this moment to just be and, and they learn from it.

And he moves on and she goes and like Ian said, they have these lives.

And, she goes on, he goes on and they learn from each other.

And I think that's something that everyone can relate to.

People come and go as lessons, as loves, as nemesis, as you know, but hopefully you always get to learn from them.

And, and I think that's something that this ballet does so beautifully and could only be done if the story was, you know, immaculately, immaculately put together.

And I think, yeah, it's just so well done.

And that's why I kind of light up, because I, I see the dots connecting and it's, I'm really excited for the audience to feel that as well.

Jonnathan, do you have any other responses?

What she said.

It's so good and so helpful for me to, hear all of this information.

This is one of those roles that... To really dive into deeply, you need to gather as much information as you can.

This had one of those roles that make you grow as a person and as an artist to have more compassion for others.

I understand Casanova probably didnt do right by many people But for me, I need to lear compassion in a sense of why he was the way he was.

So, for me this is very helpful information.

Its something I can really take on and portray this role the best as I can.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Gil, I have kind of a broader question for you, just about Colorado Ballet and some of the choices that you have been making for programing lately.

And if you can just share sort of some of the I feel like risk taking and experimentation that's happening at Colorado Ballet.

So I'm sitting here thinking about Lenny Bruce and a nightclub, and if you hear commotion during the, performance, is the police coming in and dragging me out of a program like this?

You know, it's, you know, it's again, like I said, I just I want to challenge the audience, and I want to especially challenge our dancers.

You know, as Jonnathan just spoke to developing that character and Ariel with M.M.

to be able to bring, this type of work in and just put it all in the dancers, their das de deux today... Unbelievable.

I mean, the art that was happening, it was just.

And to see them succeed at that, you know, it's it challenges me to find ballets like this, to bring to them.

Sorry.

No.

No apologies.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I have, one more question just on my list for you, Ian.

Although I have so many questions for you.

But in revisiting a story set in 1700s Venice, what parallels did you find between that era and our current cultural climate?

Let's.

Good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I spent too much of my time in the 18th century, so I maybe begin to think it's just normal.

And, or rather, like I said, a lot of the books and some of the, the, the dramas too, I love what Jonnathan said about what it is to inhabit a character, you know, inhabit another world.

I think you know what draws me to it is, is just trying to work out both the differences and the similarities, you know, and the, the resonance of, of then for now, is, is various, as I say, partly, I suppose elements of that, experiment in, rational thinking, called the enlightenment.

Some of the journey that, Casanova is on, with that intellectually, and indeed sexually, that feels pertinent to mention out loud.

I mean, the the importance of, oh, gosh, the, the enlightenment, it comes to the, foundation of, the idea of America, city on a hill.

Actually, the the idea of the first sexual revolution is, you know, quite, resonant, important as well, by which I mean born of this period, of course, are the beginnings of the sexual revolutions that lead to, women's rights, LGBTQ rights, a whole discussion, actually, of individual, freedom that could be expressed, sexually as well.

People are alive to that argument and discussion in the modern world.

But obviously, beyond that, there's there's the issue, I suppose, with, Casanova of how we understand ourselves.

I started off thinking about him as a food writer.

I'm I'm also an actor, and, man of the theater, and, as was he, his, he was born by repute in the wings of the sun.

Somewhat.

I theater, his mother was not busy.

An actress.

But, is probably is probably apocryphal, but I used to like it as a thought.

Anyway, but he's very much a scion of, the theater.

And, of course, Venice is this intensely theatrical town in that era and still arguably a city of sort of masquerade and sort of, you know, it's image.

Well, some of the gift of the, and enlightenment.

Try not to get too highfalutin here, but it goes something like the very intrigued with the idea of the interior self suddenly of this period, what, Montesquieu calls the boutique.

A room you keep hidden.

And we're very used to this now.

I mean, it's just it's just a given of modern thought that.

Oh, of course, we have a sort of an interior life and something that we do, we show, and we mediate in love and life between those two things, both with ourselves and, and how we relate to the world.

And Casanova's fascinating on this.

As of course as.

As of course is Bellino.

I mean we went about constructing a story which is really about performers and about the idea of how performers relate to the world, because it's how Casanova related to the world brought up in the theater, brought up in a world of masks, a masquerade, you know, for practically a third of the year in 18th century Venice.

What does that do to you when you have this sense of showing and hiding?

Well, some of what he's doing as a writer, some what he I believe he's doing as a as a thinker, some of why his story is important is because we're still so taken with trying to understand that, in ourselves and also now in a world which is so fascinated by, imagery and by pretense and lies, that actually here we have a truth seeker, Dobito.

Cogito.

Ergo Sum.

I'll keep on being curious about these other people, but also and about myself and my interior self.

And then I will write about it, not intending for it to be published.

Those who are rather sympathetic in that regard.

Every time I, you know, as we're taught to an analyst of just a couple, you imagine if all of this got published, you know, you know, by your niece's husband a generation after you've died is so unfair.

Not.

And yet, had she not, we wouldn't have, all of this.

So, so that some of I think.

What, what remains, you know, pertinent and resonant, probably, that issue of of of seeking, of yearning to understand ourselves, to understand the world, and to, connect with other human beings.

And a lot of the stories he tells, yes, are about love, about falling in love as he saw it.

But, about also it's just about other people and how we, we dance our way, through life.

And as you so beautifully said, you learn by every encounter, if you're open to it and you learn through every other human being, if you're lucky enough to connect with them, and you can learn so much in the theatrical space when you witness that all together.

And that's the magic also of this ballet with any ballet.

But I would argue this in particular is rather good.

This is happening right here in front of me, this recreation of these ghosts trying to connect with each other for the brief moment they have on stage.

The metaphor, of course, being for the brief moment we have dancing in existence.

And, Casanova's very moving about, that and I ended up in the book.

Kenny was very taken with the ballet with the Tides of Venice.

And the book ends with this line that he, he addresses the world like a man on a sandbank, laughing at the tide.

Perhaps we are all Venetians now.

And that is you of actually writing for him, as the world looked like it was going to hell in a handcart because of the French Revolution, essentially looking back on a world that he thought was going to be lost forever.

And one of the consolations of history, in a sense, is the world's always been going to hell in a handcart.

And and, maybe we'll get through ours.

But, that is that is some of what works with, with him and, with, with this for which obviously, you know, I credit, Kerry Muzzeys fabulous music.

The Christopher Orams astonishing designs.

Kenneth Tindall's gobsmacking talent in, creating something which nightly, moves people to, to tears and and rapturous applause through.

I think them recognizing themselves too, because it's also I realized now, a story about a man trying to rescue himself by trying to be a better writer.

Because, it's Virginia Woolf who said, you know, all biography is autobiography.

So I don't get to say that with Casanova, obviously.

Any more than, I was joking earlier.

I always used to say, because I wrote about a chef.

But, you know, physical research is so important.

Not not so much with Casanova.

Anyway, that's, some of my thoughts on that.

I just have I have so many questions that I have one more related to what you said earlier about him, working through some mental health things and melancholy.

Do you know how that resulted for him after the writing?

Is there any writing about how he felt about this writing?

Oh, it's, it's a sad, sorry tale.

Ultimately.

I mean, he spends.

The last.

15 years.

Of his life, as a, desperately sad librarian.

Looking after the book collection of Count Waldstein in distant rural Bohemia.

It's still a rather bleak part of the world.

But where some of his.

Archive.

Is and.

Yeah.

He, Hed been some sort of manic depressive all his life, it would seem.

And, he had this incredible febrile energy and he these amazing adventures, he went on an ability to reinvent himself and this astonishing intellect, all these languages.

All these people, but would, Would fall into what he called lassitude and sadness.

And eventually.

As I say, Melancholia.

So.

One theory is that he was suffering the latter stages of syphilis, which manifests as a bipolar disorder.

Its possible but unlikely because he actually maintains his absolute mental acuity right to the very end.

And hes 73-years-old, which is quite an age in the 18th century And as you can imagine, thered been a fair about of sex.

Although pretty much exclusively we believe with British made condoms.

It was one of the great, export victories for of the British economy in the 18th century.

Sidebar.

Am I allowed to dive into this?

Maybe I should I should, maybe I shouldnt.

I should tell you, my publishers in New York, a little while after the book came out here, sent me a little action doll.

There was some toy store that was doing great figures from history.

And they had 3 or 4 from the 18th century.

They had Madame de Pompadour.

And Catherine the Great But then they had Benjamin Franklin and George Washington.

But they had Giacomo Casanova.

Impressively.

And usually it would say why they were important, you know.

Catherine the Great, you know, tsarina of, of Russia.

Enlightened despot or whatever.

And, but it said on, Giacomo Casanova's it said, something like, traveler, adventurer, lover.

Librarian.

So, as if he was going to sell better that way.

It's, it also had one of those wonderful, little.

health and safety warnings you you love so much in America.

It said.

Can, contain small plastic parts?

Do not swallow.

Ill leave that thought with you.

Ill leave that thought with you.

Ah, but it was... Ive forgotten what the question was now.

His mental health.

Yes.

Yeah.

Right.

Writers trying to rescue themselves.

Um, I just say thats why we have it.

And thats why also, I, encouraged by Kenny, to constantly surprise, wanted to go into the darker stuff.

I mean he lives a blithe and happy and adventuresome life, largely.

But not towards the end.

And he has terrible regrets, of the women hes lost, partly.

of the failings hes had.

And thats a useful place to go as an explanation for why hes writing instead, this.

Because the great sadness really is he spent all his life trying to be taken seriously as a writer.

Theres an eight volume novel about... its science fiction about a fictionalized England, bizarrely.

Theres all these opera libretti.

Theres a lot of cubic geometry, of all things.

Hes trying to get published, a history of Poland.

Amazing stuff.

And only one, tiny little publishing victory in his lifetime the “Histoire de ma vie” The History of my Escape.

Theres a little pamphlet about this daring escape from the prison of the Venetian inquisition.

Which is a little part of the ballet as well.

But posthumously, he finds extraordinary fame through the one thing he never intended to publish, which was his memoir.

But born of this terrible depression and this sad ending as a bored, terribly lonely old man in rural Bohemia.

And that struck me as dramatically the right place to go.

Because it allows us to take Giacomo to a darker part of his psyche.

But is also allows us to reintroduce in the closing moments of this ballet,...

Spoiler alert.

Everybody.

Everybody youve touched in life.

And everybody you have seen this story touch, through the two-hour traffic at this stage, is there in his mindscape.

And in our world, dancing around him, as the pages of the memoirs of his life flutter down from above us, and bury the cast in the story you have just seen.

So that was the mental health journey, dramatically.

Thank you so much.

Gil, do you have any thoughts after you've been listening to Ian share tonight?

Obviously you had one take on it and then you've been getting to know people as as this has been the productions been rehearsed and getting ready to go.

Any thoughts you'd like to share?

You know, to meet Ian today and to sit here with him on this panel is amazing.

I had never met Kenny before.

The choreographer and Crystal, his assistant who came in.

And it's just to to be around these creators and to put them in front of the company again, is something that's truly special in our world.

And, you know, one of the funny stories when Kenny first got here with Crystal is they were staying down just off Speer.

And we all know the bar 404?

Yeah, they went there for dinner.

And so we were having dinner the next night, and he told me about that.

And I just had a chuckle and he said, but the greatest thing came out of it, I'm now going to do Robin Hood, the ballet.

So speaking of programing, you never know exactly.

But no, just, you know, for us to have these experiences and to meet these wonderful people, these artists, and to put them in front of ourselves and have a conversation is truly special in our World.

Thank you.

Especially now.

I, I was just, I felt very hopeful after some of the things that you said tonight.

Ian.

And I really appreciate that.

I want to we're going to give the audience, a chance to ask some questions of our panelists.

But I just like to give you all an opportunity to say anything else you'd like to, about the ballet, inviting people to come, your experience of it as dancers, writers, artistic directors?

Yeah.

I would like everybody to just, come to the show open minded.

You know, like, I say, it's going to be a different show.

It's going to be a show that is going to challenge you as an audience.

It has challenged us a lot as artists.

But, I think we all have something to to learn from this at the end of the day.

So yeah.

I agree with Jonnathan.

Yeah, I, I think everyone has an opportunity in this one to see a, a piece of themselves in it, you know, it's all really quite relatable.

The love, loss, sex, all of it.

You know, it's just a part of life.

And, I yeah, I just I hope you get lost in the music and the artistry and the passion and the all the care that we put into it.

From Kenneth to Ian to Crystal to our staff, that helps us put it together.

You know, it's it's full of a lot of life.

So, I'm very excited to share that with you guys.

Yeah.

It was, it was born of love in all sorts of ways.

This piece, the, the book and certainly the ballet, the, happiest, most loving experience of my creative life, is why I leap at the chance to come and, talk to dancers and be around.

I was saying earlier on, I've got a kind of a bias in life and love that the best people in the world are dancers or people who've trained in dance.

But it's this piece.

This piece means the world to me.

It's changed my life.

It's led on to a whole series of commissions for, for Kenny and I, more works.

Heading your way and, I'd, I'd urge you to see it.

I hope you enjoy it.

And, And I'll see you at the bar.

Do you have anything else you'd like to add, Gil?

Im good.

Okay.

Sarah's going to grab a mic and invite audience members to please ask questions.

Can you stand for me?

Could you talk a little bit about the, costumes, the decisions on the music, the costumes and, the backdrop?

Well, you're you're in for a treat.

Christopher Oram lavish, astonishing, designs.

He went on to, design, Frozen on Broadway.

He works with Michael Grandage.

Often you will have seen his work in London or New York if your theater folk.

But it was his first ballet, as it was mine.

As it was also, Kerry Muzzey, the composer.

It's a recreation of 18th century Venice.

And then 18th century Paris.

But as it will with a twist, it's, a slightly deconstructed 18th century, as you can see from the poster here.

Actually, I was just slightly inspired, actually, by Vivienne Westwood.

Who's the one character I've written about?

Not from the 18th century.

But there we go.

And, so, so that it's, it's, I can say this in all, modesty has nothing to do with me.

It's one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen on stage.

And, it's, as I say, lush and and gorgeous, but also sometimes a very simple and clear and, And I remember when my son came to see it.

It was the first ballet he'd ever seen, and he would have been about 12 at the time.

And there is a moment as, Casanova, arrested by the Venetian Inquisition, is facing what amounts to torture and imprisonment.

And the music, swells and the world closes in on him, and, dry ice is going, and the dancers are going for it, and Giacomo's in terrible pain.

And, my son turned to me and he said, wow, dad, this is better than anything I've ever seen.

So that was the review I was looking for.

And just quickly, you asked about the music and Kerry Muzzeys score.

Kenneth wanted movie music.

He really wanted grand.

And, so he talks about, you know, the inquisition there and how the music changes and how together they worked on composing this and the feel that the music needed to have from scene to scene.

It's just it's very spectacular.

And I'm looking forward to our orchestra playing this.

We have another question.

First of all, thank you for a great program.

For Ariel and Jonnathan, how far in advance do you start preparing for these ballets, and how do you keep yourselves engaged over what sounds like years of preparation for ballet?

Well, this one was interesting because we actually started learning it, in the fall.

We had, few weeks, and then we had to kind of tuck it away and move on to other things.

So but that was actually quite nice.

Yeah.

Because you get a chance for your mind to sleep on it.

So I felt that when we came back to it, I actually felt more comfortable than before, which was, really, really, interesting, I guess, you know, no case study of myself of choreography and such.

But, yeah.

And then once we came back after Nutcracker, we have, three weeks and then tech, and then we perform.

So it is quite fast paced, but, as part of the art, you know, to really dive in.

And so I think it all does and will come together quite seamlessly.

Know, yeah.

For me, it's.

Yeah, I, work on a lot of strengthening for me has been more of my, approach to it.

Casanova, leaves the stage probably for a minute to change.

Yeah.

So they.

If not, he changes on stage.

So, there is still choreography.

So challenging is, but he's so amazing and so simple and and spectacular all at the same time.

So for me, my preparation has been a lot.

Physical is a really, really tough ballet for Casanova.

Yes.

Go ahead and.

I first of all, thank you all for a fascinating evening.

Ian, you could do teasers for just about anything.

But I was curious about something.

One of the things that impresses me most about the company is their ability to act and perform, as well as movement.

And you're a man of words.

Obviously.

And, and as a writer.

So I'm curious to know what your experience was in creating a ballet without a whole lot of dialog, in fact, almost none.

And how Ariel and Jonnathan translated that into their movement and their expression.

Well, my happy experience and the other reason I'm, here in Denver is to is is to be with this company.

Is that, dancers, fabulous actors, and also hungry for character and for moment and for specificity, you know, and therefore, if you give, if you give them that, if you give those characters, if you give a story that takes Giacomo Casanova quite literally to the very edge of suicide.

If you tell a story like, Bellino's or, M.M.s..

Which is psychologically really quite complex, you can trust, a performer to need and want to inhabit that character and communicate the meaning of him, her or them, because, so, and with the very first company that we did, sort of we improvised, scenes there was, you know, talk around some, dialog as well.

No, there is no dialog.

It is it is a it's a ballet.

But, there's nothing there's nothing which, seemingly even as I say, people newly exposed to the theater don't follow in intense, detail.

It is in the, you know, the spirit of the highest standards of, classical ballet and also, narrative dance, dance, theater.

Well, from my experience, I guess the best way I could put it probably, with my rehearsal process, for example, going from someone like M.M.

to Bellino, they are very, very, very different women.

And so I had I always had to take a moment, before the rehearsals to remember who I, who I am, because I especially there's something beautiful about dance where when you go out there, you you're not really.

I'm sure it's similar for actors and such.

You're not really.

You playing someone?

You are that person for a moment in time.

And for me, that's really important.

So for example, like with M.M, I, her character is different than my personal personality and I took that very seriously.

I took all of the direction that they gave us about her sense of power, her sense of, duty to the Cardinal, to, her role in Casanova's story, very seriously.

And then when I would get to go into Bellino rehearsals, I tried to really encapsulate this woman who, had her version of her mask on, someone different than M.M.

in a different way.

And I also try to soak up, how, my peers or the woman that I looked up to who are performing this role like Ahsoka, how she, handled that kind of personality.

So it's really important, at least for me to look to, inspiration from my peers and also inspiration inwardly.

Like, if I were this person, how how would I handle myself?

How would I feel running into a room about to profess, like myself to someone and then seeing someone's there?

Like, how does that feel to be like, oh, you know, and then he sends them away and you're like, okay, well, like, I guess I'm here.

Those moments I think everyone feels and so I, I really try to find the universal humanity in it, because there is a lot of legs and falling and this beautiful stuff that we do relate to.

But, it's those, those small moments that I think really helped connect the story.

So that's, that's how I try to get into character.

For there is a reason why I love these kind of works more than I love, classical ballet.

And I always call them the super facial sort of character.

Right.

The Prince.

And, you know, you just gotta make sure your food is pointed and your hair looks nice and everything is just sparkling on stage.

But these kind of roles for me, really push me to grow and be a better artist.

They really push me to really dive into this character that at some point in time in life was a real person.

Right?

So for me, I, I really like, especially with this work, if you don't really dive into this character, it can become a little awkward with the movement and the scenes and everything that is going on the stage.

So for the moment, you know, it's a moment of escape from from me, from reality.

Yeah, I yeah, I love works like this.

Yeah.

I have another question.

That there.

Thank you.

This actually builds on what, Jonnathan was talking about.

And this is for you and Ariel.

As people who are classically trained dancers and who have kind of built your voice and your art in that world, how do you kind of balance the mindset and really honoring who you are in that training, in that development with something that, at least from what it sounds like, is a style.

It's very kind of wrenched loose of that, if that makes sense.

Oh.

All right.

Well, I think one of the most important things, for me, especially as I get to do more and more, fantastical things like this, is to remember that the classical technique is the foundation, and it is what will, save me when things may go awry.

Right.

So, you know, you you want to go for it and, test the waters, test the boundaries.

But when, when things go a little off kilter, it's that re-engagement of the back of the turn out, you know, that that it will, save you.

And I think that also it kind of creates this beautiful, full circle homecoming moment, at least for me.

When I find those moments, because I, I also like, I love this kind of dancing where I can just really, Extend out of the barriers.

But then I get these beautiful reminders that, the classical technique is why I can extend out of the various.

You can see, like.

Yeah.

First off I would love to thank you all Gil, Ian, Ariel, Jonnathan and Amber.

Please, a round of applause for our panel and moderator.

And thank you so much for coming and making this such a wonderful evening.

I appreciate you.