♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ Alexander Nguyen: Hello, and thank you for joining us.

I'm Alexander Nguyen.

Fifty years ago, more than 3000 Vietnamese citizens were evacuated to safety on the final days of the Vietnam War aboard the historic USS Midway.

KPBS marked this year's milestone anniversary with a video series "Fall of Saigon at 50: Stories of Loss, Legacy, and Identity."

While the series focuses on the final days of the Vietnam War and what happened after, the first segment goes back to the beginning.

I interview historians about the war's origins and what's missing from the American narrative of the fall of Saigon.

Kathryn Statler: What the French do is they actually end up dividing the country into three parts.

So, you have Tonkin in the north, you have Anam in central Vietnam, and Cochinchina, and they arbitrarily sort of pit these parts of the country against each other.

The country in 1954 is temporarily divided at the 17th parallel, and that's where you really see this divide to try to create a North Vietnam and a South Vietnam and this idea that an independent non-communist South Vietnam can stand on its own.

And the United States takes that and runs with it after 1954.

And so, those geographical divisions, they're long.

Pierre Asselin: By the time the Americans deploy combat troops to Vietnam in '65, the Vietnamese themselves that have been at war with each other, among each other for the better part of 20 years.

So, a civil war that begins in 1945 which then gets kind of amplified by French efforts at recolonizing Vietnam will then culminate on the 30th of April 1975.

For some, the end of that conflict, April 30, represented a positive development as it ended and it ended that conflict on terms that were favorable to one side, namely the communists and those who sympathize with them.

But then for those on the other side, that same day represented a great tragedy.

Pierre: Everyone botched the peace.

We end up seeing a peace that's incredibly messy, incredibly tragic, and which will fundamentally victimize the Vietnamese people themselves.

Gregory Daddis: The fall of Saigon in April 1975 did not end the Vietnam war.

Kathryn: Hundreds of thousands there who wanted to get out of the country and ultimately are going to get out of the country as the so-called "boat people", and then eventually going to be brought in in a more orderly fashion to the United States.

The impact for the South Vietnamese is, of course they've lost a--what they perceived as an independent country that they were trying to build and then have had to flee and try to build a new life in the United States and many other areas.

Pierre: And that's why we now have a very sizable Vietnamese community in California and in countless other parts of the US and the Western world, but it's such a tragic story.

I mean, to me that's the thing with the Vietnam War, right?

It's the tragedy that keeps on giving.

I mean, it's--and to this day I mean, it's not over.

I mean, the animosities linger among everyone and it's sad.

It's just--it's really, really sad.

Gregory: There is a competition at its core over what it means to be Vietnamese in the modern era.

And this conflict and struggle over identity is again something that could not be decided by outside foreign forces that these questions over what it meant to be Vietnamese had to be answered by Vietnamese themselves.

What does it mean to be Vietnamese?

Does it mean something different to be Vietnamese American than it means to be Vietnamese?

Does it mean something to be a non-communist Vietnamese American versus a communist Vietnamese today?

And those struggles are continuing to happen not in Vietnam, but here in the United States.

After April 1975, that state no longer exists.

What does that mean for you?

What does that mean for your identity and your family's identity moving forward?

♪♪♪ Alexander: That loss of identity is still ever present in the Vietnamese diaspora.

For the Vietnamese people, the fall of Saigon constitutes a loss of homeland, loss of country, loss of identity, and loss of familial ties.

That is the focus of this segment as San Diegans who came here as refugees reflect on April 30, 1975.

Thao Ha: The impact of the fall of Saigon.

And my parents told me the full story of, you know, the day of and we were at Dunston Airport.

At the time it was just me.

I was only 18 months old.

It was my mom, my dad, and me and kind of there, you know, running through the airfield and there's bombs and explosions and trying to leave and getting on the C-130 to get out of the airport and like the cramped space and seeing other planes, you know, explode in the air.

So, there's a lot of vivid memories for my parents in that way.

Dung Trinh: I remember being at the airport at Ho Chi Minh City or Saigon back then.

I remember it was a gray drizzly day with myself, five-years old and my three younger siblings.

I remember loud noises of gunfire, shooting, lots of screaming and yelling, and lots of Vietnamese refugees like myself sitting at the tarmac of the airport.

We weren't inside the airport, we're on the runway.

And I recall these big black loud helicopters.

They were called Chinooks, and they had these double rotors, real loud.

We had no ear protection.

Very windy because of the propellers, so we just had no protection underneath that.

And I saw large black helicopters flying in front of us and landing several hundred feet away.

I saw the back of the helicopter would go down the ramp and then I watched like people running into these helicopters, Vietnamese, and the helicopter, the ramp would go up, it would take off.

And another helicopter would land, really loud, really windy, and eventually we were told it was our turn to run and I run--I ran toward the big black helicopter, the Chinook.

And I'm not sure I was making it there because the propeller was so strong for a five-year old trying to run toward the helicopter.

Tam Phan: We see a lot of people run away and we want to run, too, because we know we will lock everything.

We run at bend back down and we see the boat and we get in there.

With the boat, 502 boat, yeah.

That boat yet run two cycle very, very slow.

Thao: There were definite traumas in terms of, you know, the loss of country, the exile, the confusion, not knowing where you're gonna land.

My grandmother, my mother's mother, she didn't know what happened, so after the war, she thought that we were dead.

So, you know, not knowing what happened to your children, your grandchild, my mother and father being disconnected in terms of communication, I think that that time period there's a lot of sense of worry, anxiety.

Dung: We have no clue where we're going.

I just saw water.

And we landed on the USS Midway.

It was clear as yesterday.

It's hard to forget these moments.

And when we landed on the midway, we got off, lots of refugees, lots of people standing around on top of the midway.

And so, I saw helicopters getting off, pilots getting off, and I stood there and watched people push these helicopters overboard into the ocean, I guess to make space for either other helicopters or other planes to land, but right in front of me, there was these helicopters just going overboard into the ocean.

It was quite an experience.

Thao: For some folks, there's some hidden pain around that day and the loss.

Dung: The weight of leaving family behind is still heavy in the hearts of my parents.

Thao: That's something that I think every family has to grapple with in terms of loss and who got to come and who couldn't come.

♪♪♪ Alexander: The fall of Saigon left behind a lasting legacy of trauma.

That trauma is being felt not only by the first generation of the Vietnamese diaspora, but also by their children and grandchildren.

This segment explores that legacy and why it's challenging for the community to heal.

Dung: For a lot of our veterans, the war is not done because of that emotional trauma of--since '75 and especially our veterans, the PTSD.

Emma Phan: For my dad, he doesn't speak too much about his time that he served in the war in the south side, but I can tell that he's been traumatized, I can tell that there's PTSD, there's anxiety in there as well, and probably some depression.

Kha Tran: They put my dad in jail.

My mom had to take care of everything.

When he came home, he changed quite a bit, become a lot quieter, didn't share a whole lot.

Dennis Doan: The PTSD that a lot of men or older men like my father felt, you know, and they cope with it through drinking.

There was no--you couldn't talk about it.

It was like a ghost in the room.

Dustin Nguyen: A lot of the memories, experiences, and traumas still follow my mom, still haunt her, to be honest.

She can't talk about much of it, but when she does, she remembers all the details as clear as day.

A very enduring and emotional aspect from the war that still follows her today, 50 years later, is actually her sense of patriotism towards Saigon.

A love and a longing for her birthplace, for her birth city, a form of nostalgia, an attachment to Saigon, she was born and raised there and a lot of immigrants.

You know, if you get homesick, you can always travel back to your country, but for her, she occasionally, and I--very occasionally she will lament to me that, you know, she misses Vietnam, she misses Saigon, and it's a country that she actually can never really visit or go home to because it's a country that no longer exists.

Emma: I think it's too painful.

And I also think because within the Vietnamese community and general AAPIs, Asian American Pacific Islander populations, we tend not to air out our dirty laundry.

There's a stigma against pain, trauma, mental health.

So, I think my parents fall within that range too of not wanting to talk about it because it brings up too much unpleasantries.

And in their mind, nothing's going to be resolved anyway, so why bother talking about it.

Jenni Trang Le: When I think of like intergenerational trauma and I feel like the young generation is trying to open these conversations and have these dialogue and like a lot of the elderly generation is still very much like, "No, it's this."

Dennis: It's a very fragile subject in my family, one that my grandmother when she was alive, every time my dad and my uncles get drunk and talk about it, she would just tell them to shut up basically.

The only time I really heard about is when my dad was drunk and my brother and my mom would talk about it.

Just little bits and pieces.

Dung: Two folks in my parents' generation, some of them are still fighting the war in their mind.

Every time I go back to Vietnam once a year to do medical missions, you know, a mom or dad would be telling me, you know, "Be careful," right?

Communist government.

And so, that sense of fear, that sense of trepidations.

Dustin: I actually remember I was so fascinated about learning about Vietnam that after my freshman year of college, I actually received a fully funded scholarship to go study abroad in Vietnam.

For three months, I bought my plane tickets, I received my student visa for the entire three months, and it must have been maybe two to three days before the trip, my mom just suddenly broke down and begged me not to go.

And this is me at 18, 19 years old, now.

And so for her, 30 to 40 years after the war and that's still her reaction to it because, and you have to remember, her last memory of the war was leaving to escape persecution.

Jenni: There's this Vietnamese way of like you should feel it and not talk about it.

And then the American way is like let's talk about it, you know, it's therapy, it's like face head on, you know.

And so, there's that--also that cultural, you know, sort of dissonance that makes it difficult to heal.

Thao: So, if you're in your twenties and you're wondering why your parents are the way they are, you're in your thirties, imagine being now--this world is in chaos and you get exiled and you get kicked out of the United States and now you've got to go start your life somewhere all over with nothing, right?

How would you manage that?

And so, having that kind of empathy, sympathy for that first generation is vital to part of the healing.

Jenni: I think that still the majority of say like the American population don't know that the Vietnam War was a civil war.

You know, the South Vietnamese voice is so like erased even here.

That's why there's a lot of hurt and I think that when we think of the healing that hasn't been done in the community, it comes from that erasure.

♪♪♪ Alexander: As we've seen in this series, the way the Vietnam War ended 50 years ago has a lasting impact on multiple generations of Vietnamese refugees.

But what does it mean to be Vietnamese today and how can members of the diaspora move forward without letting the Vietnam War define them?

I explored that aspect in this segment.

Nicolas Nguyen: The struggles that they had to go through because they were like boat people.

They came here on boats.

That kind of trauma has just like stayed with them.

As they tell me what they went through, I just--I understand it a lot more.

I felt like I was there and it just really means a lot because of how--I guess how like--how surreal that feeling is and how I mean, I'm lucky enough to not experience it.

Vy Luu: Being a kid and growing up like in Southern California like a tragedy like that like that's kind of--it feels unimaginable almost.

Cat Tien Tran: If my parents, my family had not left Vietnam, I wouldn't have like this deep of a connection with my culture.

I think that when Saigon fell, a lot of people, a lot of citizens saw their country change in ways that they, you know, couldn't control.

And I think that because they saw their country, the country that they love so much crumble, they wanted to preserve it and keep it going with them wherever they went.

Dustin: My family story is probably the number one reason why I, one, joined the army, and two, wanted to pursue a career in public service and in government today.

Dennis: It was very difficult for my parents to understand the struggle that I was going through being Vietnamese in the '90s because I wasn't American enough for them to consider me, you know, one of their peers, but I wasn't Vietnamese enough to be considered, you know, Vietnamese even at home because every time I complained about something, they would compare it to what they went through to get here or what they went through Vietnam or how life is so much better.

Altaire Nguyen: I feel like almost split.

Like--there's like a part of me that's like Vietnamese and then American is separate and I don't really know how to mesh the two together because at home like I'm a little more involved in tradition and culture and I'm--I try to lean into it more, but like going out to school every day and like seeing my friends, we just don't have that overlapping culture.

I just wish that I had more Vietnamese friends in my area to like feel that connection to my identity.

Kassidy Huynh: I'm very glad to have grown up in San Diego as a Vietnamese American because there is like a decent community of Vietnamese people here.

I've thought about if I had lived in like a Midwest area or like somewhere else in California where there's less people of my, like, culture.

I think it would have been a lot harder on me and for my family.

Nicolas: I definitely didn't understand the--like the significance that the war played on my family members.

Now hearing it as an adult now, it really feels like I was there living it and like seeing what my parents had to go through which like really hurts me just because they went through a lot.

Tri Luu: I hope they don't--they do not have to go through what we went through, but it's still a good lesson for them to learn about the past and drive in the future.

But certainly, I do not want them to live or to went through what we did.

Minh Tuyen Le Mai: I think growing up, I felt like it was my responsibility to do well in school to really honor their sacrifices.

I even wrote about it in my personal statements for college.

They sacrificed a lot and I think they saw going to the US as an opportunity for a better future for me.

Oftentimes they would say if we would have stayed in Vietnam, I wouldn't have the opportunity to go to college because my parents--my dad's involvement with the anti-war and anti regime.

Cat: So, I think my responsibility is a lot bigger to be able to make sure that, you know, future generations, other classmates, friends, peers can really learn about it because having--I believe that having a connection to your culture is very important.

Dennis: Our responsibility is definitely to keep the traditions going honoring our ancestors during Lunar New Year, keep the the dances going, the singing, the music, the food.

Emma: I hope that the path forward would be further exploration, understanding of the rich culture and heritage of Vietnam and history of it as well because I think it would be really sad to be lost.

Jenni: I think the path forward, you know, in the diaspora and healing is conversation, is like is talking to each other, but really listening to each other and not be--and we do our best to not be combative, but healing from the past where I think that it's very important just like in anything we should know our history, you know.

Thao: The more that we can get that first generation to open up, to tell their story just to start speaking, to start talking, we have to unearth some of that history and their stories as really critical parts of how we can move forward because when those things are buried when they're gone-- I have a friend whose father just passed away and she has a lot of regret over stories that she didn't get to hear from him, you know.

Dustin: So, there's not many future moments to commemorate this occasion with them.

I think the future of Black April and False Saigon commemorations will continue to honor everyone who was lost and displaced because of the war before us, but it also has to be forward looking as well.

It has to take the lessons from the war, it has to take the lessons from the plight of all these boat refugees, the plight of my grandfather and my mother, and extend that to how we treat people, events, and wars in the future, and the wars that are ongoing today.

Alexander: The exodus of the Vietnamese people in the late '70s, '80s, and '90s, mostly by boat, was a major global humanitarian crisis that continues to impact both global politics and San Diego's Vietnamese community to this day.

In this final segment, I talked to the son of the man who created Boat People SOS.

It was an organization that helped save thousands of boat people after the Vietnam War ended.

♪♪♪ Phan Lac Tuong Huan: My name is Phan Lac Tuong Huan.

April 30 is the clear, sharp transition in my life.

I had a memory as an eight-year-old as a Vietnamese boy.

We got on a ship on April 30 and we left.

And the memory before and the memories after are distinct and different.

So, as an eight-year-old boy growing up in Vietnam, I knew that eventually I would have to go to war, and I knew that all my uncles and all of their friends, some of them didn't come back.

And then so, I didn't think of the future, I didn't think of what I would be after I turned 18.

I knew that I would have to survive the war before I could worry about that.

I also knew that America was this mythical land of opportunity.

And when we were on the boat that first day and I saw the vastness of the ocean, I recognized that it was possible for me.

That going to war may not be a thing anymore.

My father is a naval captain.

He was part of the large exodus of the Vietnamese Navy at the very last days of the war.

My father is a unique person.

He's a naval officer in Vietnam and he's also a writer.

He wrote many books over 30 years about the war and about the refugee experience.

You can tell that he experienced this huge loss of country and culture.

He has this idealized idea of what Vietnam was and what Vietnam could be, and he suffered that loss tremendously.

And that loss, that feeling of loss never really left him.

He--it held on to him for the rest of his life.

So, he wrote a book about that.

There's this book right here that he wrote.

It's about his formation or the--or his part, his role in the participation of the Boat People SOS Committee.

And I think late in 1979 or 1980, he received a letter.

It turned out from one of his friends--high school friends that he had grown up with in Hanoi, another prominent writer.

And this prominent writer, that then he was on one of these boats and they were dragged off to this island where terrible things happen on this island.

And because he was a writer, he wrote a letter that reached my father that described the circumstances.

This book here starts out with the very first letter from his friend.

In brief, basically, they were on a refugee boat and they were captured essentially by pirates and they were dragged off onto this island.

And on this island, all of their possessions were searched and stolen, and then all of the men on the boat were moved off onto this cave, and kept there while the women and young girls were dragged off to a different part of the island far enough so they couldn't be seen, but close enough so they could be heard.

And so, all of the atrocities that these women experienced could be heard by the men who were in this cave.

And this letter was really the impetus that caused the formation of the Boat People SOS Committee with Doctor--from UCSD, and that committee was pulled together again to raise awareness and to raise funds to rescue these refugees.

You know, some of the more prominent things they did was they worked with international organization like Médecins du Monde, Doctors Without Borders, basically, and other organizations to essentially raise funds to to get large boats basically to drive out into the middle of the shipping lanes and see if they could rescue some of these people.

They also work with countries around the world to make sure that there were visas on board so that they would know how many people they could rescue and these people would have a place to go.

♪♪♪ Alexander: Thank you for joining us for this KPBS news special, "Fall of Saigon at 50."

I'm Alexander Nguyen.

Have a great evening.

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