- (female announcer) Production funding for Behind the Headlines is made possible in part by the WKNO Production Fund, the WKNO Endowment Fund, and by viewers like you, thank you.

- The local political party heads talk about the upcoming elections tonight, on Behind the Headlines.

[intense orchestral music] I'm Eric Barnes with The Daily Memphian.

Thanks for joining us.

I am joined tonight by the two heads of the local political parties.

Rachel Wall is head of the Shelby County Republican Party.

Thanks for being here.

- Thank you.

- Willie Simon is head of the Shelby County Democratic Party.

Thanks for being here again.

- Thank you.

- Along with Bill Dries, reporter with The Daily Memphian.

So we'll talk with the first stage of our long election season, I feel like, and numerous stops along it in Shelby County.

May 5th is the county races: the county mayor, county sheriff, et cetera.

That's the primaries.

Those, then, are elected in August for, you know, who the final winner is.

August is when the primaries, and Bill can correct me here, when the statewide races, governor, et cetera, all those are elected and they- - And federal - And federal, the primaries.

And then in November is the final election.

So we've got four steps here, but this is a big one in terms of the local races.

Early voting starts April 15th, and the actual election is on May 5th.

And if you need more information that we don't get to today, just on the ballot, who's up for race, you can go to Shelby Vote, the Election Commission, to get more about that.

But let me start with the both of you, and we'll try today... There's obviously an intersection of national politics or even arguably international politics with things happening locally.

But we really wanna stay focused on the local elections.

And, you know, it's hard not to start with Memphis Safe Task Force, crime, and immigration, some of those things that have been really national issues, but had a big impact here when, you know, we went through our big crime spike.

Crime started coming down.

Then, there's the federal intervention.

And now, that intervention is in a kind of a different phase in some ways.

Violent crime numbers, certainly, and other crime numbers down dramatically from a year ago, dramatically from the peak in COVID.

I'm gonna start with Rachel.

The first time here.

Willie was on last year talking about elections with your predecessor.

What is the take of your... I mean, we've got the county mayor, and there's one candidate on the Republican side.

John DeBerry.

- Correct, yep.

- And then we've got the sheriff, other local elected officials that have impacts on crime.

What are you wanting to see from them, and what is the message that they're trying to convey?

- Well, our message continues to be that crime is, in many ways, our most important issue.

We Republicans, the party, really support the task force, and the intervention, and the work that they've done and hope that that can continue.

You know, we have candidates that that's their battle cry: "Keep fighting crime.

Keep crime down in Memphis."

So from our perspective, nothing is really changing.

We like what has occurred and we want it to continue.

- And I'll bring Willie in here in a second, but we've had a lot of elected Democratic officials on in the last six months: Mayor Young, Paul Young from Memphis, most recently Lee Harris, the outgoing county mayor in November.

Most of the Democratic officials are very supportive of the Memphis Safe Task Force with the varying degrees of support or even abhorrence to what's going on with ICE.

But in terms of federal agents, you know, Tennessee Highway Patrol, ATF, all those things, do you find it difficult to distinguish the Republican position from the Democratic position locally when so many elected Democrats are supportive of so many parts of the task force?

- Well, truthfully, I think the majority of Democrats are supportive, truly, and have been.

But I think that once we get closer to elections, and politics become more vital to elections, I think that there's been a repositioning with some candidates to reflect on the task force in a negative way.

But I don't really think that that ultimately resonates with voters, Republican or Democrat.

I think that the majority of voters really do like the change in crime in Memphis as a result of the task force, if we were all being honest about it.

- Yeah, same with you.

How do you distinguish yourselves, the people running from the Republicans, at a time when this is not Fox News, this is not MSNBC, MSNOW.

This is not those differences that we see at the national level, really.

It's a more complicated situation.

- Right.

I think, you know, I talk with Mayor Young about this all the time.

One of the things that we all agree is that we needed resources.

And I think back when CJ Davis became chief, CJ Davis became the chief, one of the things she asked for is for backing from Tennessee Highway Patrol, more of that.

When we were having the interstate shootings and that kind of thing, she was asking for that type of assistance.

I do know, a few years ago, we had a field office for the FBI here in Shelby County, and then all of a sudden it disappeared.

And so what we do know is that the resources need to be here.

And I think it needs to be orchestrated in a way where our elected officials, as well as the appointed chief of police, as well as our sheriff be engaged in all these activities to make sure that we have a consistent decline in crime.

Now, everybody knows when you institute a new thing, you're gonna have a great result because you have shock and awe, but what happens when those people disappear?

Are we gonna go back and spiral down to a situation where the resources dry up, and then we have a situation where we're trying to fill in the gaps again?

And I think if we had a commitment from federal or state to make sure that we have the resources we need here led by our teams that were already decreasing crime to go ahead and put those programs in place, that will put us on a trajectory where we can decrease crime overall.

Now, some of the numbers I heard, they're pie in the sky.

Seventy-five percent, ninety-five percent-- - Reductions?

- Reductions, yeah.

- Yeah, yeah.

- Those are big numbers.

But when you have poverty and all these other factors that are involved, I think you have to consider those things.

And I think we have to temper our expected result by having real conversations of what we really expect.

- All right, let me bring in Bill.

- So there are the expectations, but what is the long-term plan?

What does it look like to you?

- To me, what the long term plan should be is working on what we call law enforcement.

People get law enforcement mixed up with crime prevention.

I think law enforcement is not crime prevention.

I think when you start really thinking about it, crime prevention involves investing in recidivism programs, making sure that our youth have something to engage with rather than having negative influences around them.

I think we need to start looking at poverty as a whole.

Those are things that I think you can invest in that will decrease the likelihood of crime.

And we can see this, whether it be Memphis, whether it be West Virginia, whether it be anywhere.

And where poverty exists, crime increases.

And we need to be talking about that more, rather than saying, "Oh, the remedy is throwing everybody in jail and mass incarceration."

That is not the remedy.

The remedy is actually preventing people from having to go down those paths.

- What does long term look like after the task force?

- Well, I don't disagree that, obviously, the intervention that we've experienced the last few months, really the result of that was taking the pressure off, seeing what could be accomplished with resources and the support to our law enforcement here.

And so I think that's great.

But obviously the things that you outlined can't be accomplished in the short term.

That's a long-term goal.

But I think that what we know now is, with adequate support and resources, it's effective.

So we know as a starting point, these areas of support work.

And we also have the elected who now can maintain that commitment to keep the pressure on to keep the resources in place.

We have, you know, Senator Taylor, we have Rep.

Gillespie who now see what the possibilities can be, if we have the resources.

And so I think that maintaining that pressure with our elected officials on both sides of the aisle can, hopefully, set in motion continuing to keep that pressure off so that, locally, we can work on addressing things, like poverty, et cetera, et cetera.

- Are the county primaries, then, a referendum on the future direction of the task force and beyond that?

- Well, Republicans are gonna support any candidate who's supportive of the task force because that's such an important issue for Republicans.

And so, actually, I'd be interested in your thoughts on it with your voters.

- I think our voters will be supportive of... First of all, we support anything that reduces crime, but the imagery behind it and the long-term effects, that's a whole 'nother story.

One of the things that I've always thought about is, you know, demilitarizing our police than making it seem like this is a military operation will go a long way with making people say, "Hey, this is not just an invasion," so to speak, "but this is more of an investment."

And when we start talking in that light, and making sure that people know that there is local oversight, because what it seems like to the average person that doesn't know all the details behind it, is that a group decided from elsewhere to come and do something about what's happening locally, but they're not really invested in the community.

And so what we can do is, and I think the goal of all of this should be, to let local control actually help use these resources in an effective way to make sure that the citizens buy in.

And I think any candidate that's talking about that on our side is gonna be successful.

- But with local control, did we have a handle on crime?

I mean, it's been going down for the last two years.

- Exactly.

- But if local control was the answer, would we be here?

- Well, I think we would be here with resources.

I mean, I'll use this for example.

If I wanted to build a house, and I only had a hammer and some nails, but I really needed an air gun, I really, really needed a air hammer to build a house faster, but I didn't have those resources, then, of course, I can't build a house as fast as I need to build a house.

But once I got the resources... I have the know-how, in fact I'm being effective 'cause I've, actually, put up two walls, but in order to build a house faster, I need the resources.

And if you've been asking for the resources and the resources haven't been available, then it seems like you're stagnated, and you're not really doing it, but you're really doing the work.

And the prime example of that is we saw an immediate drop in crime once the task force came here.

They had to be updated.

They had to have information from local officials to even start investigating some of these things and, actually, cracking down on certain things.

Now, there's a group going to tell you that, "Hey, we've made so many arrests," but we're really talking about violent crime and those types of things.

And that information came from the intel that was already in place by our local law enforcement.

- Mayor Paul Young has said repeatedly, "We have a problem with violent crime.

We don't have a problem with immigration."

Should immigration be a part of this?

- Well, I think that... Well, in response to what you said a few minutes ago, we were not operating effectively.

We needed help.

And that was evidenced by the improvement that has occurred.

And so does immigrant... You know, if we have folks who are here illegally and are operating outside the law, that needs to be addressed and amended.

- Staying with immigration, you know, a year ago, and I'm Worth Morgan is a different person.

I'm not trying to say... But he was head of the Republican party, former councilman, ran for county mayor.

He talked here and around this time a year ago when Willie was here as well about, look, if people are here illegally, they need to be removed.

This is a good thing.

It was when before the operations had started here and the ICE interventions had really, they weren't even talked about.

- Yeah.

- Minneapolis, Chicago, LA, other cities, DC.

Then, they happen.

Do you look at how interventions happen, what happened here, and is happening here with ICE is very different than Minneapolis, is different than DC, is different... Communities have been different.

But as Paul Young has said, he was on the show recently saying, "Look, I mean immigration's been a growth area in terms "of our population that is otherwise declining, and we don't want ICE just rounding people up."

Right?

How do you reflect on that, and how do the candidates locally reflect on that?

And the state is looking to pass a bunch of laws that are gonna create some immigration limitations and oversight from the state.

Has it changed from a year ago, given our experience?

- Well, maybe.

I mean, I think, look, there's always room for improvement in how we address these concerns.

And, you know, there has to be a view, kind of a human decency view.

Every story is unique and different.

That said, there is a path to come here legally.

And so many have taken it.

So the concept that we should just overlook folks who are not following the law, people who are not choosing that path, I don't think is legitimate.

It's okay to enforce the law.

- Okay, midway through the show... We can talk immigration and crime the whole time, but there's a bunch of other issues, and Bill may circle back on some of those.

But another big issue right now is Memphis-Shelby County Schools, and the potential takeover.

You mentioned Senator Taylor.

We've had him on numerous times talking about crime, but also this.

Mark White, representative from the Germantown area.

It's not clear yet if it's gonna happen as the legislative session continues, but should there... I'm gonna start with you.

Apologies to Willie.

And we'll try to make sure this is all good.

Should Memphis-Shelby County Schools be... The takeover plan that has basically been put together at the state with a board coming in on top of the elected officials, an appointed board, should that happen and why?

- It should happen.

And it's very similar to the task force.

What we have been doing is not working.

And I think that putting together a solid, capable board to come in, put a new set of eyes on this would be really beneficial to the school system.

- Your take on the preliminary findings of the audit that found what some said is millions of dollars in problems, what others said is a tiny fraction of the overall spending of a giant multi-billion dollar organization.

- Yes, so I have not seen an expansive amount of detail on it.

What has been reported to me is that it's kind of a shock and awe situation.

I've been told a few details, examples, that are included and if that is the trend of the entire audit- - Fair enough.

- I think that we will be stunned.

- Yeah.

Should there be a takeover of Memphis-Shelby County Schools, and if not, why not?

- Absolutely not.

I think there should be a spirit of collaboration.

I mean, if you wanna improve something, you don't come in and dismantle the state constitution to do it.

What you do is you put together a group that could become an advisory board or somebody that could come in and help have an oversight committee that actually has a conversation with these elected officials and work together with them.

But when you say, I'm gonna mute the voices, not just of the commissioners, but you're muting the voices of the people that elected them to be in those positions, and I think anytime we do that, that's an overstep.

But, you know, there's an opportunity for all of us to rethink what they're doing.

I think one of the things that the school board did, and they came up with a plan, and I was there at the press conference when they talked about it, is having intergovernmental agencies actually look at these things holistically, rather than operating as just the school board commission, but working with the county commissioners as well as the the Memphis City Council.

And those things are ways to collaborate and actually fix those things.

But when we start talking about taking over a local entity by appointing a group, that is a violation of democracy to me.

- Bill.

- We have the first ever school board primaries coming up for Memphis Shelby County Schools.

- Yeah.

- Has the prospect of a takeover had an impact on the number and quality of candidates in your primaries for those four seats?

- Absolutely not.

[laughs] My primaries are very active to say the least.

I'm excited about the people that have stepped up and want to be a part of making sure that our kids and our system is successful.

So we have a lot of people that are engaged.

And one of the things that happens and when we have these types of audits, they present opportunity and I don't see it as something that's these gotcha moments 'cause I guarantee you if you looked at the budgets of a bunch of people in their own households, you'd see more than 5% of a variance that you need to work on.

And I do this for a living.

Actually, I have a whole degree in managing waste.

I mean, I got an whole- - You should be part of the oversight team.

- Exactly.

I have a whole certification in managing it.

So when I look at this, it's not surprising when I hear words like, "Oh, this is the worst I've ever seen."

Well, you didn't look very far because I can guarantee you, if you walk through several entities, whether it be on the state level, national level, or any level, household level, you're gonna find that these variances occur.

And especially when, well, when we had the unfortunate situation where you have leadership change as often as they had at the top of the leadership group at Memphis City Shelby County Schools.

I mean, you have four superintendents within a three and a half year period.

You're gonna have some things that are not lined up the way they should be.

- You have school board primaries as well, but you don't have candidates in it.

Was that a function of the prospect of the takeover?

- I don't think so, no.

I mean, what I've learned, and I think that you probably experienced this too, when you're out meeting with and recruiting candidates for specific races, you have to... Candidates get to decide what they think that they can accomplish.

And when you look at certain races, you know, they make their decision based on what's likely and possible.

- Because you can't stop someone from running if they want to run, are there discussions, and what are they like if you have them, about telling someone this is not your time?

- We don't really do that.

We try and... take meetings with people who really wanna run.

And so they already believe it's their time.

And there are a few exceptions where you'll get down the road with somebody and they realize, "Okay, this is far more than I thought it would be."

And they'll decline for that reason.

But, no.

I mean, if someone is committed and interested and can meet the requirements to run, we want 'em to run.

- Do you have those discussions?

- We have discussions around alignment.

When we understand that, you know, people that.. I think you should, if you have a conversation with someone that says, "I want to run as a Democrat."

Well, it's important though that you have to vote democratic.

It's important that you have these- - Same with the other party?

- Right, yeah, you have to have these clear outline things that you have to do to align.

As far as having the opportunity to run, I think we've shown in our primaries that we have a variety of people that are running, and it's a good thing because now our voters get a chance to hear different voices from different spaces, and it gives us an opportunity to kind of pick, not that we're dictating who comes through the door, but, actually, we vetted some of these individuals and say, "Hey, they align with the values of the Democratic party."

- With about four minutes left, I'm gonna race through things that we could do whole shows on.

So I might ask you both really kind of simultaneously just kind of walk through some of these things.

One is the county clerk race.

Wanda Halbert is termed out.

She's a Democrat.

She was elected twice.

- Right.

- I don't know a ton of elected officials are super happy with how things have gone with the county clerk.

You know, that sort of, I have a theory that I've heard from lots of other people that, you know, the whole notion that there's so many cars in Memphis and Shelby County that don't have tags on them.

It influences people's sense that local government is failing.

It's a small thing, but it's a big thing, and the police will say it's a big thing.

It just looks like county government doesn't have a handle on stuff, and a lot of people don't understand it's the responsibility of one elected official, the county clerk.

What do you wanna see?

Let me go with Rachel here first.

What do you wanna see in a new county clerk?

- Run the office in a responsible and efficient way.

Run it maybe as you would your household.

I think that people's expectations are so low at this point, but I think it's such a simple thing.

Responsibly run these offices.

- Willie?

- I think there needs to be a root-cause analysis done to figure out where all the skeletons are and make sure that everything is in alignment.

I don't care what kind of process you put together, if you don't understand what the challenges are, I think having a person to come in to make sure that they manage the technology, they manage the people, they manage the expectations, and talk to all the stakeholders that actually make this stuff happen, I think that's the most important thing that the new Shelby County clerk should do.

- One of the biggest economic development and tax benefits to the City and County in the last few years has been xAI.

It's a very controversial project for a lot of people.

Concerns about pollution.

Just this week, the water facility that xAI committed to build that would recycle water versus pulling water outta the aquifer was at least put on pause or hold indefinitely.

Your take?

I mean do we need... Is is xAI worth it with whatever pollution there is and now some uncertainty about the water treatment?

I'll go to Rachel to start.

- I think xAI is certainly worth it in terms of what it will ultimately bring to Memphis.

- Yeah, Willie?

- Well, I think if you talk to the people that live in the ne neighborhood where xAI is, it's not worth it to them because what Memphis may benefit from might be a hindrance for them.

But I do think things like saying that you're gonna kind of stall on the treatment plant and that kind of thing, that it doesn't go well with saying that you're gonna be a good neighbor.

- Again, one we could do a whole show on, and we will do other whole shows.

The proposal to build a whole new Regional One, turn it into an academic facility.

I'll stick with my pattern here.

Rachel, is that a desirable outcome, and is it an affordable outcome?

- Desirable, yes.

Affordable, I'm not sure.

I know we've gotta do something, and so I think it remains to be seen.

- Yeah, yeah.

- Well, as a person that has a lot of experience with Regional One 'cause I worked there before.

- Yeah.

- And, I will tell you that if Regional One didn't exist, there are a lot of people that we look at right now that have been in car accidents, shootings or whatever, they wouldn't be here.

So whatever investment we need to make in making sure that there's state of art hospital as well as not just serving Memphis, but serving north Mississippi and east Arkansas, it needs to be funded and put in place.

- And a new jail.

Last one.

We don't have much time, but is it time to spend money on a new jail?

- Well, we need a new jail, but the numbers that are being suggested are so exorbitant.

I mean, again, it's something that we've gotta figure out, and we need good leadership to figure it out.

- Briefly, we five seconds here.

- Well, I think we need a new jail.

I think people that are being housed in a space that is inhumane is inhumane.

- Yeah.

- But also believe that we need to exhaust every opportunity to make sure that what we have in place right now, we've looked at every opportunity to make that thing happen economically.

- Alright, that is all the time we have this week.

Thank you.

Thank you, Bill.

Early voting starts April 15th.

Election day is May 5th.

This is the county offices.

And again, you can go to Daily Memphian.

Go to Shelby Vote.

Get more about the staggered set of elections coming up this year.

If you missed any of the show, go to WKNO.org, YouTube, or the Daily Memphian.

Thanks very much, and we'll see you next week.

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