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- This is One-On-One.

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- That's a good question, high five.

(upbeat music) - Welcome to Remember Them, Steve Adubato with my colleague, my co-anchor, and the executive producer Remember Them, Jacqui Tricarico.

Jacqui, people are gonna wonder, hey, why are you looking at two mobsters who were infamous, iconic mobsters, broke the law, on this Remember Them?

We have Longie Zwillman and we also have Richie "The Boot" Boiardo, what's up with that?

You see the book over here that's written by Scott Deitche which is Garden State Gangland, and also the other book Richard Linnett wrote, Richie the Boot Boiardo, what are we doing, Jackie?

- Well it's just another instance when these people had a significant impact on New Jersey.

We don't need to so much say we're honoring them, but they had a significant impact in New Jersey, and Longie Zwillman, and Richie the Boot, also had a lot of connections to one another, both kind of fighting to become the top mob bosses in New Jersey, and Richie, and Longie Zwillman came from, born in Newark, Steve I know you know a little bit more about his upbringing, and him trying to be the Al Capone of New Jersey.

- I was not around then, so don't go there, it was way before I was born.

But Longie Zwillman, born and raised in Newark in a certain section where there was a large Jewish community, I believe it was the same community that Philip Roth, trust me that's not about the mob, that's being one of the greatest writers of all time, Philip Roth from a certain section of Newark, Richie "The Boot" Boiardo from, I hate to say this but I will, my neighborhood, in Newark.

I heard about him as a kid, he was gone, he had died, but we heard about him an awful lot.

But what's fascinating is that Richie "The Boot" Boiardo tied to mob families in New York, the five mob families that Lucky Luciano had put together, he was part of that, but Longie Zwillman, a brilliant businessman, involved in bootlegging and a whole range of activities, mostly illegal, but some legitimate, but could never be in the mafia, Jacqui, why?

- Because of his Jewish descent.

It's different, it's different, yup it's different, and they butted heads a lot, and there was a lot of controversy between the two of them, and even when Richie the Boot had gotten shot multiple times, at first they were blaming Zwillman, but it wasn't him, so yeah, a long history between the two of them there, and it's really interesting, on the backend of our show we're gonna look at a pre-taped interview that you did in 2013, like you said, with Richard Linnett who wrote the book In the Godfather Garden, the Long Life and Times of Richie "The Boot" Boiardo, but also along with Roger Hanos who is the grandson of Richie the Boot.

- That's right.

He, right, yeah, he contributed to this book because he learned so much more about his grandfather after his passing, he lived in the same area, the same lot of land, where his grandfather lived, but things were so hush hush and he even tells you in the interview it really was shocking to him, so many things that he learned about his grandfather.

- You're reminding me of, I've been at this too long, some interviews I even forget.

For Jacqui, myself, and the entire terrific team at Remember Them, Richie "The Boot" Boiardo, and Longie Zwillman, folks who knew them well and wrote about them, thanks Jacqui.

- Here he is, Scott Deitche.

He knows an awful lot about the mob, the mob in New Jersey.

He's the author of "Garden State Gangland: The Rise of the Mob in New Jersey".

Good to see ya.

- Good to see you, thanks for having me on.

- You got it, hey, listen, "Remember Them", that's the series.

Why should we remember Abner "Longie" Zwillman?

- He was a Newark native and was probably one of the more influential organized crime figures certainly through the prohibition, post prohibition era.

And a lot of people, even people in New Jersey, aren't necessarily really familiar.

He's not as much of a household name as Al Capone or John Gotti.

- It's funny, for those of us who are aficionados of "The Godfather", We know the character Hyman Roth modeled after Meyer Lansky.

Meyer Lansky, one of the most famous Jewish mobster in the country.

Longie, in many ways, just as significant, just not well known, but by design.

- Yeah, yeah, he grew up in the Jewish section of Newark.

He was headquartered out of the Riviera Hotel which is still there.

He was friends with Meyer Lansky and was very much a defendant or stood up against people that were going against the Jewish community at that time.

So he had a little bit of a folk hero status, but he really kind of tried to keep out of the public eye, especially during prohibition when he really started to expand his illegal empire.

- Did Longie do business with Joe Kennedy, the father of President John F. Kennedy who was very much involved in the liquor business?

- So there was a story that a shipment of liquor that Joe Kennedy was invested in went missing, and Joe blamed Longie Zwillman for it.

Zwillman denied it but Zwillman believed that later on that's why, especially in the 1950s, the federal authorities really started coming down hard on him as kind of revenge for this missing liquor shipment of Joe Kennedy's.

Maybe there's some truth to that.

Maybe there's some story to it, but there's a definite tie there.

- So Longie and the mob, the mafia if you will, La Cosa Nostra, could not, obviously, be part of that officially, because he was not Italian, not from Sicily in particular, but he had great influence with people like Lucky Luciano, correct?

- Yeah, Lucky Luciano.

And then even more in New Jersey, people like Richie "The Boot" Boiardo, Jerry Catena,- - And primarily, Genovese crime family.

So yeah, he had a lot of very close contacts to a lot of very important people in the underworld.

- Longie Zwillman, if you will, excuse me.

And by the way, Mark Stuart, one of the first interviews I did as a broadcaster.

Mark Stuart, you know his book "Gangster No.

2"?

- Yep, I read it.

- One of the first interviews I did was with Mark.

Fascinated by...

I've been fascinated by Zwillman for years.

I grew up in Newark, used to hear about him as a kid.

He was long gone.

P.S.

Zwillman was found...

He hung himself, correct?

- Correct, yeah, he hung himself in the basement of his house.

- Excuse me?

- In the basement of his house, yep.

- Was he not supposed to testify before the (indistinct), excuse me, Kefauver commission?

Senator Kefauver had a commission examining, investigating organized crime.

He was supposed to testify.

He wasn't gonna talk, and he killed himself.

- Well, there's a little bit of a time difference between when he killed himself and during the Kefauver commission.

But yeah, there's a lot of suspicion on his suicide, but people I've spoken to and people that knew Zwillman said that he most likely did commit suicide.

He was coming under a lot of intense pressure by federal authorities, and people said he was depressed in the weeks leading up to his suicide.

There were a lot of pressure on him.

So I think it leans towards suicide.

- P.S.

the name Longie, Jacqui and I talked about it earlier.

He was very tall.

In fact, I think he was called the tall one.

So he was Longie.

- Yeah, that's how he got his nickname.

- And you know what's fascinating to me, Scott, is that he did not want notoriety.

He was very much unlike John Gotti and some other people in the mob.

He wanted to be in the background.

He was a successful, smart business person.

He was not a fan, or am I romanticizing this?

Not a fan of violence but knew violence was at times necessary?

- Yeah, and in fact, I would say he modeled himself more as a businessman.

Certainly, in the post prohibition era you see him just investing tremendously into a wide array of legitimate businesses and really kinda looking towards a more legitimate, going legit, if you will.

So I think your characterization there is accurate for sure.

- We're gonna show a picture of Gene Harlow, right?

A starlet, if you will, in Hollywood at the time.

Longie he had a relationship with her.

- Yeah, Longie had a relationship with Gene Harlow.

He spent some time out in Hollywood.

He had some investments out there, investments in Las Vegas at that time.

But even then, even though he was tied to one of the biggest actresses of the time, he still kind of stayed a little bit more in the shadows, then, like a Johnny Stompanato Lana Turner kind of relationship.

- Before I let you go, Longie Zwillman, one of the many mobsters that you feature in "Garden State Gangland", what the heck is it in your view, Scott, that makes New Jersey... that has made New Jersey historically such a comfortable place for so many mobsters?

- Well, you have seven crime families operated within New Jersey: the five New York families, the Philly family, the DeCavalcante homegrown Elizabeth family.

You had Sicilian communities and Elizabeth in Newark in the early 1900s, which spawned some of these affiliations.

And there was definitely a level of political corruption in New Jersey, which allowed them to operate pretty freely.

- So finally, for those of who are wondering, hey, why would Jacqui, why would Steve on "Remember Them", remember people who were mobsters connected to the state of New Jersey.

They mattered.

We do not glorify, we do not condone, but our job is to examine history and historical figures who matter.

And Longie Zwillman was one of them.

Scott Deitche, who is the author of "Garden State Gangland: The Rise of the Mob in New Jersey", cannot thank you enough for joining us on "Remember Them".

- Oh, you're welcome, thanks for having me on.

- [Narrator] To watch more One on One with Steve Adubato find us online and follow us on Social media.

- [Steve Adubato] We have a one on two here.

Richard Linnett is the author of In the Godfather Garden: The Long Life and Times of Richie "The Boot" Boiardo and Roger Hanos is grandson of Richie "The Boot" Boiardo.

Good to have both of you here.

- Thanks.

- Thank you.

- Set this up for us.

I grew up in Newark, New Jersey, in the North Ward of Newark, New Jersey, hearing about Richie Boiardo my entire life, Became the inspiration for Tony Soprano's character in the HBO hit series, The Sopranos.

Fair to say?

- [Richard Linnett] Yes.

- [Steve Adubato] Okay.

- [Richard Linnett] Yeah.

- [Steve Adubato] And lots of similarities there.

And you grew up as a kid in the area, right?

- [Richard Linnett] Our family's from Vailsburg.

- [Steve Adubato] Yeah.

- And then we moved out and went up to Roseland which is right in the shadow of the state of Richie 'The Boot' in Livingston.

- Now, how do you come into this whole thing, right?

And how do you meet this guy?

- Well, believe it or not, my mother calls from Florida.

She's retired and says, Hey, I heard there's an article in Penthouse Magazine regarding Grandpa and Uncle Tony.

And I said-- - [Steve Adubato] Uncle Tony-- - [Roger Hanos] Uncle Tony.

- [Steve Adubato] would be Tony Boy.

Tony Boy, Richie Boiardo's son who was also involved in that life.

- Correct.

- [Steve Adubato] Go ahead.

- So, I read the article, I thought it was a great job.

I contacted Rich Linnett and invited him over.

Proposed that we do a book together.

So we came to terms and collaborated on an agreement which resulted in the book.

Rich was a great choice in terms of doing this because he was an established author, writer and a journalist.

Plus he had the same passion and determination as I did to tackle the project.

- What's interesting, for those, some might assume that family members of organized crime figures would, whether you sign the Vow of Omerta or understand the Vow of Omerta, would say, well, it's a vow of secrecy that we would never... Or is that just old and irrelevant and... - Well it changed over the years.

A lot of people, Gotti's lieutenant-- - [Steve Adubato] Sammy 'The Bull'?

- Sammy 'The Bull', started talking.

All these guys talk in the end.

I mean, a lot of them talk in the end.

But Roger was never in this life of theirs.

He was never in it.

In fact, 'The Boot' made sure that his grandchildren were not in this life.

His son was the heir apparent, and that was Tony Boy, and he got in it and that often happened.

It happened of course with the Corleone family in The Godfather, and there were parallels.

- [Steve Adubato] Even though they wanted Michael to go a different way?

- Exactly.

- [Steve Adubato] Senator Corleone, Governor Corleone, it didn't happen that way.

- [Richard Linnett] Didn't happen that way.

But, Roger did go a different way.

But, he happened to live on the estate.

The estate that 'The Boot' built in Livingston.

- [Steve Adubato] Yeah, talk about the estate.

Some interesting things happened there.

- It's about 30 acres, up on a hill, by Riker Hill, right next to a Nike base, big mansion, lots of statues.

It was profiled in a Life Magazine article in 1967.

- [Steve Adubato] What are we looking at right there, by the way?

That's a picture of?

- [Richard Linnett] That's Richie, 'The Boot' on his horse.

(laughing) The statue that's in the garden.

And in the garden, that's why it's in The Godfather garden.

That's the house, the main house.

Can I-- - [Steve Adubato] Talk about it, yeah.

- [Richard Linnett] That picture was what, from 1950?

- [Roger Hanos] 1950.

- [Richard Linnett] Yeah, 1950.

So it was in great shape.

Now it's fallen into disrepair.

The property had like a little village with all of the houses where the children lived, his daughters lived and Roger grew up there.

So Roger grew up on the estate.

He was the perfect person for me to get in touch with because some of the cousins had disappeared, went to other places.

Roger grew up on the estate.

He tended to Richie 'The Boot' through the second half of his life, basically, and saw him on his deathbed.

- [Steve Adubato] You did?

- [Roger Hanos] Yes.

It's interesting to me.

You knew him obviously in a very different way than those of us who heard about him.

Who heard about the violence.

Who heard about the extortion.

Who heard about the mob connections that had politicians in his back pocket, like they used to talk about in The Godfather, about Vito Corleone.

But also heard about what would go on at that estate, that some of the mob figures would say that you would not want to be brought into certain places in the back, in the estate, because you would not come out and you wouldn't be killed in a kind way, you would be incinerated, you would be burned.

That's the same man that you cared for in the second half of his life?

- [Roger Hanos] Yes.

- Did you ever talk about those things?

- No, no.

My grandfather's life before, during and after prohibition remained a mystery to the immediate family.

- [Steve Adubato] Did you want to know?

- Well, after I retired and finished my career and established my family, yes, I had a major Ancestry.com moment.

And Richard came along and I took advantage of that.

- [Steve Adubato] So, let me ask you this.

Because also the church that my sons will actually wind up receiving their first holy communion in, communion in St. Lucy's church, in the old first ward of Newark, there is a stained glass window that I look up on.

Actually, as you do this program, this Sunday, as my son receives his first holy communion, Christopher, I'll be looking up on it.

And the name there is Richard Boiardo.

He was one of the biggest contributors, one of the biggest supporters of the church that sustained an Italian community where immigrants were poor, had nothing.

He was in many ways, the backbone of that church.

- [Roger Hanos] Absolutely right.

We've always known him to be very charitable with churches and especially St. Lucy's.

- [Steve Adubato] Is that a contradiction to be this person who was involved in murder, extortion, and everything that he was doing, but still be a part of the church, tied to what they were doing and trying to help poor people?

- [Roger Hanos] Absolutely.

For whatever reasons, he was able to compartmentalize his secret life and his family life and the community life.

And I don't know how he was able to do that without spilling over in each of the areas.

- [Steve Adubato] But he did.

- Yeah.

- [Steve Adubato] Vittorio Castle was what your father owned.

He owned it, he actually sold it to someone who I wound up knowing, Tom Pinolo.

It was so interesting, Tom's restaurant, but Vittorio Castle was a place that Joe DiMaggio would come from New York to want to be comfortable with friends.

He owned it.

It was a place to be, no?

- Yes, absolutely.

And I think you're referring to Vittorio Castle prior to the Sorrento, Tom Pinoto took over the Sorrento restaurant.

- [Steve Adubato] Yes, yes.

Describe Vittorio Castle.

What was it and how grand was it?

- Well, from what I heard and saw, it was grand to the extent where everyone wanted to be married there, have their events there, the food was fantastic, it was also a place where you could rub shoulders with the gangsters, with a load of celebrities.

- Celebrities had discovered Newark at that time.

North Newark became like a mecca for people who had been in New York, been in Manhattan, been to all those places, they found, they discovered, the east, the North Ward of Newark, Italian neighborhood, great restaurants.

That place was where Laurel and Hardy went, where Joe DiMaggio, a lot of celebrities went.

- [Steve Adubato] Sinatra knew it as well.

- Yeah, Sinatra was there.

- But the other side of this is that Richie Boiardo and Gerard Catena and Gyp DeCarlo, and others who were a part of that milieu also knew that one of the keys was to control the political figures in the city of Newark.

And one of those political figures was Hugh Addonizio, who was the mayor of the city of Newark, who was convicted, went to jail, they owned him.

They controlled him.

They owned the city.

Describe the connection between Richie Boiardo, those guys and the politicians in the city.

- Well, that was Tony Boy's initiative, the Newark-- - [Steve Adubato] Tony Boy Boiardo?

- Tony Boy Boiardo.

At that point, Richie was kind of like, he retired in '58, supposedly, and gave the street activity to his son.

His son got involved with the people who basically started doing sweetheart deals, through a company called Valentine Electric, which he was associated with, and started winning these bids.

- [Steve Adubato] Rigging these bids.

- Rigging these bids, right.

- [Steve Adubato] Hold on.

Was the key that Tony Boiardo learned from his father was that you had to control political figures in order to move commerce, meaning Richie Boiardo was involved in moving liquor illegally during prohibition and as Joe Kennedy and others, no secret, watch Boardwalk Empire.

Point being, Tony Boy learned from his father and others around him that you had to control political figures in order to move commerce.

Is that a fair assessment?

- Absolutely a fair assessment, yes.

- [Steve Adubato] So, talk about what happens.

- So it's interesting when you bring that up with Richie, because Richie had the modern political association, which was basically a club that was a hangout for his gang.

And it also was a way to get money to support the candidates that he was behind, including Paul Moore who was a Congressman, Jersey Congressman, who showed up at this big three day party that celebrated the truce between Richie and the other gangster in New York-- - [Steve Adubato] Longie Zwillman?

- Abe "Longie" Zwillman.

So, during that three day event, politicians showed up, cops showed up-- - [Steve Adubato] Judges showed up.

- -judges showed up and some of them lost elections after they were photographed, including Paul Moore.

And Richie figured that out early and he passed his knowledge onto his son.

And his son brought it to this high level where in 1969, when it was discovered that Addonizio and this whole ring of corruption had basically taken over the city.

- [Steve Adubato] Excuse me, which also included the director of the police department, Dominic Spina, go ahead.

- [Richard Linnett] Exactly.

They basically drained the public coffers of funds and that was, especially The New York Times, which investigated it, said that that was one of the reasons why the riots had occurred in '67 because there was no safety net anymore because gangsters were sucking the lifeblood out of the city and the city of Newark burned and 26 people died during that-- - So in many ways, what happened in Newark in 1967, according to many, was the culmination of that corruption leading up to that.

- Yeah, it was that and race issues because of the influx of southern Blacks into the city, which created a... And then a diaspora of Italians and Germans-- - [Steve Adubato] Complicated.

- -out into the suburbs, like my family.

- [Steve Adubato] Absolutely.

My family stayed.

But let me ask you this, and they're not going anywhere.

But, let me ask you this.

As someone who grew up in that neighborhood, as someone who grew up hearing the stories, I want to ask you, because my last name ends in a vowel, yours happens not to, but you understand where I'm going with this, do you understand some Italian Americans believing that Richie 'The Boot' Boiardo, and Tony Boy Boiardo and others who were involved in that life, and the corruption, the crime, the murder, the extortion and everything, that beyond what people believe The Godfather and Sopranos and all that is about, that they've made it hell on the rest of us?

- [Roger Hanos] Yes.

- Do you get that?

- [Roger Hanos] Yes, I do get that.

I'm also half Italian and I grew up believing that my grandfather was the Robin Hood.

Took from the rich, gave to the poor.

But after doing the research on the book, working with Richard, there's a lot more to it than that.

A whole lot more to it.

The amount of crime, corruption, the killings, shocking, absolutely shocking.

- [Steve Adubato] The brutal killings.

- And it's not just during the last 20 years of my grandfather's reign, but going back to the 20s and the 30s, it's just mayhem.

- Has it been worse for you to know more?

- [Roger Hanos] Yes.

- But the more you knew, the more you have wound up knowing, has it been worse for you emotionally and psychologically?

- Yes.

Not only that, but in terms of the betrayal factor.

I mean, I grew up with a unwritten code of silence.

Don't ever talk about your grandfather, say anything bad.

I mean, everyone that I spoke with praised my grandfather.

Of course, I'm the grandson.

I mean, it hurts to have to say this, but he chose a life, a secret life that is not right, it's wrong.

It was wrong.

- [Richard Linnett] It's interesting though.

He comes over from Italy, there's hard times in the United States, a lot of people came over from Italy, and there's prohibition and they see a way to start making money and they get involved in that life.

'The Boot'-- - [Steve Adubato] No, but respectfully, they-- - [Steve Adubato] My grandfather came in 1919.

He chose to be a barber and work in a factory.

So when you say they, I just want to be clear.

- [Richard Linnett] My grandfather too on my mother's side, (indistinct).

Also the same side.

A mason coming to Newark-- - [Steve Adubato] So go ahead.

- -and working totally legitimately.

- [Steve Adubato] Right, I just want to be clear, because you seem to be going a certain direction-- - I'm not yet.

- -like there was no other way.

Go ahead.

- Yeah, no, there is another way.

- [Steve Adubato] There was and... Go ahead.

- And one of the reasons why everybody's attracted to this story, these stories, is these guys considered themselves soldiers, like the guys going to Afghanistan.

They put themselves in that mind frame.

This is a world in which we get things done.

We don't have laws.

Well, we have some laws.

We don't have judges.

We don't have lawyers.

We get things done either by sitting down or whacking the other guy.

- [Steve Adubato] For the baker and for the butcher and for the shoemaker, if they didn't pay, these guys, they had problems with the same people who would bust their windows and tear down their businesses.

So what are you talking about?

- I'm not justifying it, I'm just saying.

- [Steve Adubato] But you make it sound like somehow they're protecting them against someone else.

They were protecting them against themselves, because they were the ones who were going...

If you didn't pay, if you didn't pay these guys, these guys came after you.

- [Richard Linnett] Right, right.

No, and they're all bullies.

I mean, I knew myself.

I'm just saying the attraction of this life, the attraction to this life-- - [Steve Adubato] The perception of the life.

- The perception of the life.

- [Steve Adubato] The reality of it.

- Right.

- [Steve Adubato] Could we acknowledge there are two different things?

- Yeah.

- That The Sopranos, The Godfathers, I watched every one of those movies, know way too many of the lines than I would like to admit.

But the reality of the life is not the same as the Hollywood version.

- Absolutely.

- [Narrator] One on One with Steve Adubato has been a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by PSE&G, NJM Insurance Group.

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And by The Russell Berrie Foundation.

Promotional support provided by New Jersey Globe.

And by New Jersey Monthly.

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