>>> SO, WHEN THE US NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR THE ARTS UNVEILED ITS AMERICA 250 BAY READ PROGRAM, OUR NEXT GUEST REALIZED THERE WERE NO BLACK WOMEN ON THE LIST OF AUTHORS, SO LITERARY ACTIVISTS MARITA GOLDEN AND GWEN McKINNEY CREATED SOMETHING OF THEIR OWN .

THE NEW NATIONAL READING INITIATIVE CELEBRATING THE LIVES AND LEGACIES OF BLACK WOMEN THROUGH 25 BIOGRAPHIES AND COMMUNITY READING PROGRAMS.

ON AMERICA'S 250th BIRTHDAY.

HERE THEY ARE WITH MICHELE MARTIN.

>> THANKS, PAULA, GWEN McKINNEY, MARITA GOLDEN, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR THE INVITATION.

>> WE APPRECIATE BEING HERE.

>> WHEN, LET ME START WITH YOU, HOW DID YOU NOTICE THAT THE NATIONAL ENDOWMENT LIST OF BIG RAIDS, THE RATES THAT THEY WERE SUGGESTING AS A WAY TO CELEBRATE AMERICA'S 250, DIDN'T HAVE ANY BLACK WOMEN AUTHORS ON IT?

>> ACTUALLY MICHELE, WE BACKED INTO IT, MARCH 8th IS INTERNATIONAL WOMEN'S DAY, AND WE WERE PREPARING AN EVENT WITH THE D.C.

PUBLIC LIBRARY, REALLY CELEBRATING BLACK WOMEN VOICES.

ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES WAS DOING THE RESEARCH ON DIFFERENT AND WHEN SHE DID, SHE DID A PIECE FOR OUR WEBSITE ABOUT THE BIG READ, AND LIKE MAYBE MIDWAY ALMOST TOWARDS THE END, SHE MENTIONED THE TITLES, AND NOTED THAT NONE OF THE 24 TITLES WERE AUTHORED BY A BLACK WOMAN.

AND ACTUALLY MICHELE, IF I CAN JUST SAY, OF THE 24, 14 WERE WHITE MEN, FIVE WERE WHITE WOMEN, THREE WERE BLACK MEN, ONE WAS A NATIVE AMERICAN WOMAN AND ONE WAS A LATINA WOMAN.

AND THAT SEEMED NOT ONLY AMAZING, BUT IT WAS UNSURPRISING, AND WE SAID, NOW, THIS, FOR US, RATHER THAN TO PROTEST, WE NEED TO PRODUCE, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT BLACK WOMEN'S STORIES, BY AND ABOUT BLACK WOMEN CAN BE EFFECTIVELY TOLD.

AND WHEN I SAY WE, I MEAN, UNERASED AND BLACK WOMEN SPEAK, THAT WAS IT, MICHELE, AND WAS PRETTY MUCH A FOUNDATIONAL PREMISE OF OUR WORK, TO UNERASE BLACK WOMEN.

>> DO YOU REMEMBER HOW YOU HEARD ABOUT THIS?

>> I HAVE WORKED WITH UNERASED FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS.

AND SO, THEY REACHED OUT TO ME, AND ASKED ME IF I WOULD BE WILLING TO BE ON AN ADVISORY TEAM TO COLLECT A NUMBER OF BOOKS THAT COULD BE PUT ON THEIR 25 RECOMMENDED BIOGRAPHIES OF BLACK WOMEN OF COURSE, THAT WASN'T EASY YES, I WAS VERY EXCITED AND GRATIFIED TO BE PART OF A PROCESS THAT WAS INSPIRED AND EDUCATIONAL FOR ME.

>> SOMETHING DISAPPOINTING BUT NOT SURPRISING, MARITA, DID YOU FEEL THE SAME WAY?

>> IT WAS SHOCKING, DISAPPOINTING BUT NOT SURPRISING BECAUSE, I SAW THE NONINCLUSION OF BLACK WOMEN'S VOICES AND STORIES ON THE LIST AS A CONTINUATION OF WHAT APPEARS TO BE A DIRECT STRATEGY TO ERASE, NOT JUST AFRICAN AMERICAN CULTURE FROM OUR HISTORICAL STORY BUT IN A PARTICULARLY HURTFUL AND UNIQUE WAY THE VOICES OF BLACK WOMEN.

SO I THINK FOR BOTH OF US IT WAS SURPRISINGLY GIVEN THE POLITICAL TEMPERATURE RIGHT NOW, WE SAID, THIS IS PAR FOR THE COURSE.

>> WHY DO YOU SAY THAT, THOUGH, SOME PEOPLE WOULD FIND THAT SURPRISING LIKE THE NOBEL PRIZE WINNER, TONI MORRISON, BLACK WOMEN HAVE HAD SUCH AN IMPORTANT ROLE IN THE LITERATURE OF THE 20th CENTURY, AND BEYOND.

>> WELL, WE ARE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION A WEEK AFTER SIGNAGE HAS BEEN POSTED ON THE AMERICAN HISTORY MUSEUM AT THE SMITHSONIAN, DISCREDITING MUCH OF WHAT THAT MUSEUM SHOWS AS THE MULTICULTURAL STORY OF AMERICAN HISTORY.

AND SO, WE CAN LOOK AT THE POLITICAL AND SOCIAL LANDSCAPE, AND SEE THIS AS EVEN AN EFFORT TO MOVE INTO THE REALM OF CULTURE, LITERATURE , AND CONTINUE WHAT APPEARS TO BE AND WHAT CAN PERCEIVE TO BE BY SOME OF US, AS A POLICY THAT IS WIDE- RANGING.

THIS IDEA THAT THIS WOULD BE AN ALTERNATE LIST, AS IT WERE?

>> I THINK THAT COLLECTIVELY, AND I WANT TO GIVE TRACY McGEE WHO'S THE PROJECT DIRECTOR SOME CREDIT FOR THIS BECAUSE SHE'S THE ONE WHO SERVICED THIS BLISS.

PART OF IT IS A MISSION, IT'S A CONTINUATION OF THE WORK THAT WE DO, TO TELL OUR STORY, AND AS MARITA SAID, THE ERASURE OF BLACK WOMEN, I MEAN, IT'S BAKED IN, IN THIS MOMENT, ACROSS POLITICS, CULTURE, PUBLIC POLICY, YOU LOOK AT THE LIBRARIAN OF CONGRESS CARLA HAYDEN, THE NEW YORK ATTORNEY GENERAL, LETITIA JAMES, THE FED BOARD OF GOVERNORS, LISA COOK, ALL BLACK WOMEN WHO, WERE SOUNDLY TARGETED.

WE ARE NOT PARANOID, MICHELE.

WE SEE THE REALITY, IT'S NOT JUST THE ASSAULT ON DIVERSITY, EQUITY AND INCLUSION , IT IS A ROUNDED ASSAULT ON BLACK WOMEN TO ERASE AND TO DENY US WHAT WE REFUSE TO BE DENIED.

>> SO MARITA, WHY BIOGRAPHIES?

>> I THINK PEOPLE ARE PRETTY MUCH FAMILIAR WITH WRITERS RANGING FROM TONI MORRISON TO TERRY McMILLAN, FICTION HAS REALLY GRABBED THE IMAGINATION OF THE AMERICAN READING PUBLIC IN THE LAST 30 OR 40 YEARS.

AND THERE ARE MANY PROMINENT AFRICAN AMERICAN FICTION WRITERS THAT ARE PRETTY WELL KNOWN.

THE BEAUTY I THINK OF THIS LIST, IS A BIOGRAPHY HOLD A PARTICULAR PLACE IN THE CULTURE.

WHAT A BIOGRAPHY DOES, IS IT TAKES A SIGNIFICANT, DISTINGUISHED PERSON, AND PLACES THAT PERSON WITHIN A VERY LARGE, WIDE AND SWEEPING POLITICAL CONTEXT, FOR EXAMPLE, I'VE WRITTEN SEVERAL MEMOIRS, BUT A MEMOIR DOESN'T PLACE A PERSON IN THE BROAD SWEEP OF HISTORY.

IT DOESN'T PLACE A CHARACTER IN, IN TERMS OF THEIR GENERAL AND ABIDING INFLUENCE.

SO THESE BIOGRAPHIES DO SOMETHING VERY SPECIAL, IN TERMS OF INTRODUCING READERS TO DISTINGUISHED, GROUNDBREAKING BLACK WOMEN WHO, THEY MAY NOT BE FAMILIAR WITH.

SO WE HAVE PEOPLE ON THE LIST, FROM HARRIET TUBMAN TO SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO WERE ERASED, UNKNOWN, BUT WHO SHOULD BE KNOWN.

>> LET'S GO INTO SOME OF THE LIST.

AS YOU MENTIONED MARITA, IT INCLUDES NAMES THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD KNOW, HARRIET TUBMAN, IDA B WELLS, TONI MORRISON, ZORA NEALE HURSTON AND ALSO INTRODUCES READERS TO WOMEN, NAMES THEY MAY NOT KNOW, SO WHY DON'T WE JUST TAKE TURNS NAMES, GWEN, DO YOU WANT TO START?

>> ONE JUMPS OUT AT ME, THE STORY OF CALLIE HOUSE, NOT A HOUSEHOLD NAME BUT BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THE ORIGINAL MOTHER OF AMERICAN REPARATIONS.

AND THE AUTHOR, MARY FRANCES BERRY WHO IS A NOTED HISTORIAN, WAS JUST FASCINATED BY THE STORY AND STUMBLED ON CALLIE HOUSE, WHO WAS FROM HER HOME STATE OF TENNESSEE.

THE TITLE OF THE BOOK IS MY FACE IS BLACK, IT'S TRUE.

AND SHE WAS BONE --BORN JUST BEFORE EMANCIPATION, IN 1861 , AND SHE LAUNCHED TOWARDS THE END OF THE 19th CENTURY, A CAMPAIGN FOR PENSIONS, WHILE SHE WAS A WASHERWOMAN.

FOR WASHER WOMEN AND FORMALLY ENSLAVED PEOPLE.

WHAT DO THEY DO?

THEY THREW HER IN JAIL BUT CALLIE HOUSE, HER STORY, AS WE KNOW, THE REPARATIONS MOVEMENT HAS CONTINUED, SHE LAID THE BASIS FOR WHAT WE NOW KNOW AS REPARATIONS.

THAT WAS ONE OF MY FAVORITES.

>> OKAY, MARITA, WHAT ABOUT YOU?

>> I'M A NOVELIST AND SO ONE OF MY FAVORITES IS THE BOOK, DRIVEN TOWARD MADNESS BY NIKKI TAYLOR, WHO IS A SCHOLAR AT HOWARD UNIVERSITY, AND OF COURSE WE KNOW THAT TONI MORRISON, HER BUT, BELOVED IS RECOGNIZED AS A MASTERPIECE, AND INSPIRED BY AN ACTUAL INCIDENT WHERE AN ENSLAVED WOMAN FLED HER ENSLAVEMENT, AND RATHER THAN HAVE HER INFANT DAUGHTER BE TAKEN BACK INTO SLAVERY, SHE CHOSE TO KILL THAT CHILD.

NOW, MORRISON OF COURSE, TAKES MEDITATES ON IT, IN A WAY THAT ONLY SHE CAN DO FICTION, AND IT'S A POWERFUL STORY.

BUT DRIVEN TOWARD MADNESS IS A GREAT COMPANION TO BELOVED, BECAUSE HERE WE HAVE THE ACTUAL WOMAN, MARGARET GARNER, WE HAVE ACTUAL LIFE, THE DETAILS OF HER ACTUAL LIFE, BUT MORE PORTLY, WE HAVE A VERY DEEP STUDY OF A PSYCHOLOGICAL TRAUMA THAT SHE, AS AN ENSLAVED WOMAN WOULD HAVE SUFFERED, WHICH WOULD HAVE ULTIMATELY LED HER TO TAKE A PROFOUNDLY TRAGIC ACT OF RESISTANCE ON BEHALF OF HERSELF AND HER CHILD.

SO IT'S A GREAT COMPANION TO A BOOK THAT WE NOW RECOGNIZE AS REQUIRED READING.

ONE OF MY FAVORITES ALSO, IS THE BOOK THAT JOY AND REID WROTE, A BOOK ABOUT METZGER EVERS AND MYRLIE EDITORS.

IT'S A LOVE STORY AND WE DON'T GET MANY LOVE STORIES FEATURING BLACK PEOPLE BUT IT'S A STORY OF HOW MYRLIE WAS A TEAM PLAYER WITH UNERASE BEFORE HE WAS ASSASSINATED AND THE YEARS AFTER HIS ASSASSINATION, SHE CONTINUED THAT WORK.

SO SHE IS A HEROIC FIGURE, A VERY INSPIRING FIGURE, BUT IT'S A BONUS BECAUSE AS I SAY, IT'S A LOVE STORY AND A BIOGRAPHY OF AN AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMAN.

>> A COUPLE OF THE BOOKS ON THIS LIST THAT I HAVE A PARTICULAR FONDNESS OF.

ONE IS, YOU MENTIONED THE ATROPHY OF MADAM CJ WALKER, AND HERE'S ANOTHER BOOK THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL KNOW BECAUSE OF THE MOVIE, HIDDEN MARGO LEE, WHICH, YOU KNOW, SO ALL OF THESE BOOKS ARE NOT OBSCURE.

>> AND I NEED TO STRESS, THE CONTEXT OF THIS, WHICH I DID NOT MENTION, THAT BIG READ THAT GOT US PROMPTED INTO THIS, WAS TO CELEBRATE THE 250th ANNIVERSARY OF AMERICAN INDEPENDENCE, AND FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, BLACK WOMEN'S STORIES AND CONTRIBUTIONS TO THIS NATIONS UNFOLDING, IS UNDENIABLE, NOT JUST TO 50 BUT YOU COULD GO BACK, MORE THAN 400 YEARS.

SO THE POINT OF THE STORY TELLING, THAT'S WHY WE CALL IT POWER READ, IS TO PRETTY MUCH REFLECT THAT BLACK WOMEN'S STORIES ARE GROUNDED IN THE AMERICAN HISTORY STORY.

AND ARE A PART OF THAT.

>> IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO SAY THAT WE SEE THIS LIST AS A STARTING POINT, RECOMMENDING PEOPLE TO USE THESE BOOKS IN THEIR BOOK CLUBS.

THERE'S GOING TO BE A COMPANION LIST OF BOOKS FOR CHILDREN , THAT ARE BIOGRAPHIES THAT CAN BE USED SO THAT ADULTS CAN READ THESE BIOGRAPHIES AS WELL AS THEIR CHILDREN .

>> SO WHEN THE NEA ANNOUNCED THE BIG READ INITIATIVE THEY RELEASED A PRESS RELEASE SAYING AND I QUOTE, THE GOALS OF THE NEA BIG READ ARE TO INSPIRE MEANINGFUL CONVERSATIONS, CELEBRATE LOCAL CREATIVITY, ELEVATE A WIDE VARIETY OF VOICES AND PERSPECTIVES, AND BUILD STRONGER CONNECTIONS IN EACH COMMUNITY.

AND THEY GO ON TO SAY THESE BOOKS CELEBRATE THE COUNTRY'S CULTURE, HISTORY AND RESILIENCE THROUGH THE EYES OF ITS CITIZENS.

HOW DOES EACH OF YOU RESPONDED TO THAT STATEMENT?

>> FIRST OF ALL, THE RESILIENCE, THE RESISTANCE, THE INNOVATION, THE POWER OF BLACK WOMEN IS INTEGRAL TO THE AMERICAN STORY, WHETHER WE ARE TALKING ABOUT INDEPENDENCE, OR WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE AMERICAN STORY THROUGH THE AGES.

BLACK WOMEN'S CONTRIBUTIONS AND VOICES AND LIVED EXPERIENCE, ARE PART OF THAT.

>> READ, HOW DO YOU RESPOND?

>> THAT STATEMENT MAKES THE NONINCLUSION OF BLACK WOMEN ON THE LIST EVEN HARDER TO BEAR BECAUSE THE HYPOCRISY OF IT, I FIND STUNNING .

>> I WANT TO GO BACK TO SOMETHING YOU SAID WHEN WE STARTED, YOU SAID RATHER THAN PROTEST , YOU DECIDED WE ARE GOING TO CREATE, YOU KNOW, OUR OWN LIST.

SOME PEOPLE MIGHT ARGUE, WHY NOT PROTEST?

WHY NOT SAY, LOOK, WE ARE DONE WITH SEPARATE BUT EQUAL, AS IT WERE, AND THIS WAS A GRAVE OVERSIGHT , SOME SIGNIFICANT STORIES HAVE BEEN OVERLOOKED AND IT NEEDS TO BE A PART OF THE LARGER PICTURE.

>> I'M FINE WITH PROTESTS, BUT I'LL LEAVE IT TO OTHERS, BECAUSE MY FORTE, MORE THAN BEING A POLITICAL ACTIVIST, IS MORE OF A COMMUNICATIONS ACTIVIST, AND SOMEBODY WHO WANTS TO REALLY TAP INTO THE IMAGINATION OF ESPECIALLY BLACK WOMEN.

SO, RATHER THAN PROTEST , AND THE STYLE THAT IS TRADITIONAL FOR BLACK WOMEN, WE MAKE A WAY OUT OF NO WAY.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE DID.

WE LOOKED AT THE SO-CALLED, BIG READ, THAT OMITTED US, THAT IGNORED US, AND WE DECIDED TO CREATE A POWER READ, MICHELE, THAT CELEBRATES US BUT ALSO, THAT OUR HISTORY LESSONS, NOT JUST FOR BLACK WOMEN BUT FOR EVERYONE.

>> I WANT TO SAY THAT I THINK THAT THE WOMEN ON THIS LIST WOULD HAVE BOTH PROTESTED THEIR EXCLUSION, AND THEY WOULD HAVE PRODUCED.

THE BEAUTY OF PROTESTING, OF COURSE, IS THAT IT CAN EMPOWER PEOPLE TO PHYSICALLY DO SOMETHING PARTICULARLY IN THE PUBLIC.

THE PROBLEM WITH PROTEST IS THAT IT CAN BE MISINTERPRETED , NARRATED IN WAYS THAT THE PROTESTERS CAN'T CONTROL.

WHEN YOU PRODUCE YOUR OWN DOCUMENT, YOU ARE CONTROLLING THE NARRATIVE, YOU ARE CONTROLLING THE DEFINITION OF IT.

BUT I DO THINK THAT WOMEN THAT WE ARE HONORING, WE ARE HONORING THEM IN THE LEGACY, REPRESENTING THEIR LEGACY OF ACTIVISM AND PRIDE AND TRIUMPH.

IT'S IMPORTANT TO SAY THAT THIS IS A LIST OF INSPIRING TRIUMPHANT STORIES.

>> MICHELE, I HAVE TO SAY THIS REALLY QUICKLY.

MY TEAM WOULD KILL ME IF I DIDN'T SAY, VISIT OUR WEBSITE, WE'VE GOT A FANTASTIC PAGE WITH THE STORIES, WITH A VIDEO ABOUT THE STORIES, AND YOU KNOW, TO LEARN A LITTLE MORE ABOUT ACTIVATION, BECAUSE WE JUST DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE BOOKS, WE WANT PEOPLE TO READ THE BOOKS.

WE WANT LIBRARIES TO HOST BOOK EVENTS FOR THE TITLES.

WE WANT BOOK CLUBS, TO FEATURE NOT MAYBE ONE OR TWO OR AS MANY AS THEY WANT, SCHOOLS AND CLUBS, TO REALLY EMBRACE IT, CHURCH GROUPS, I MEAN, WE REALLY ARE TRYING TO MAKE THIS A CULTURALLY CURATED EVENT.

>> MARITA GOLDEN AND GWEN McKINNEY, THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

WE ENJOYED THIS.