> >> NOW, AT LEAST 70 SCHOOL SHOOTINGS HAVE HAPPENED ACROSS THE UNITED STATES THIS YEAR, UNBELIEVABLE.

IT IS THE STORY THAT MOST AMERICANS KNOW ALL TOO WELL, SADLY.

WITH EACH INCIDENT AS DISTURBING AND TRAUMATIC AS THE LAST, FEELING INCREASINGLY DESENSITIZED TO THESE HARROWING HEADLINES, STEVE HARTMAN CHANNELED HIS FRUSTRATION INTO THIS POWERFUL NEW DOCUMENTARY, "ALL THE EMPTY WOUNDS," EXPLORING THE GRIEF, LOSS, AND EXPERIENCE OF FAMILIES AND YOUNG VICTIMS THROUGH THE BEDROOMS THEY LEAVE BEHIND.

>> HER ROOM --THAT WAS HER SAFE PLACE.

>> BRIAN LOST HIS DAUGHTER GRACIE IN THE 2019 SAGA HIGH SCHOOL SHOOTING AND HE JOINS STEVE HARTMAN AND HARI SREENIVASAN TO TALK ABOUT THIS PAINFUL YET MOVING PORTRAIT OF AMERICA.

>> BIANNA, THANKS, STEVE HARTMAN, BRIAN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

STEVE, LET ME START WITH YOU.

YOU HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THIS PROJECT ON THE SIDE OF YOUR DAY JOB, AND I GUESS YOU HAVE BEEN TO SO MANY OF THESE SCHOOL SHOOTINGS, THE STORIES, THE WEEK AFTER, WHY THIS PROJECT?

>> THIS PROJECT WAS BORN OUT OF THE KIND OF FRUSTRATION THAT I FELT THE COUNTRY WAS GROWING NUMB TO THE SCHOOL SHOOTING EPIDEMIC, AND I WAS GROWING NUMB, YOU KNOW, IF I CAN BE REALLY HONEST, I GUESS I CAN SAY THAT I JUST DIDN'T CARE AS MUCH AS I ONCE DID.

THERE WOULD BE A SCHOOL SHOOTING AND IT WOULD MAKE NEWS FOR A LITTLE WHILE, AND EVERYBODY WAS MOVING ON, AND I DIDN'T LIKE SEEING THAT IN MYSELF, AND I DIDN'T LIKE SEEING IT IN THE COUNTRY, SO I STARTED THINKING, WHAT CAN I POSSIBLY DO TO SHAKE PEOPLE OUT OF THAT NUMBNESS?

AND THIS PROJECT WAS BORN FROM THAT FEELING.

>> I DON'T KNOW IF YOU FELT THIS AS A REPORTER, BUT I REMEMBER BEING IN THE LIVING ROOMS AFTER THE NEW TOWN TRAGEDY OF THE PARENTS, AND IT WAS SO DEVASTATING, AND I THOUGHT FOR SURE THAT WAS GOING TO BE AT, THAT'S THE END, THERE COULDN'T BE ANYTHING MORE TRAGIC THAN ALL THESE CHILDREN THAT WERE GUNNED DOWN.

OKAY, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE LEGISLATION, WE ARE GOING TO STOP THIS.

BUT AS THE STATISTICS IN YOUR FILM POINT OUT, IT HASN'T STOPPED.

>> KNOW.

I DON'T THINK I EVER REALLY THOUGHT THAT.

I KNOW THAT THAT WAS KIND OF THE MOOD IN THE COUNTRY FOR MAYBE A FEW MONTHS AFTERWARDS, BUT YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE DEBATE, THE GUN DEBATE AND ALL THE ARGUMENTS, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVEN'T LED US ANYWHERE.

I THINK SANDY HOOK IS PROOF OF THAT AND THE STATISTICS ARE PROOF OF THAT, AND I AM HOPING THAT THIS FILM CAN SERVE AS KIND OF A NEW BEGINNING, A FRESH START, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE WE CAN'T BEGIN TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM, I DON'T THINK, UNTIL WE FULLY FEEL THE WEIGHT OF IT.

AND THIS FILM DEFINITELY LETS PEOPLE FEEL THE WEIGHT OF IT, AND I HOPE PEOPLE WATCH IT WITH AN OPEN MIND, AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT BEING LECTURED ABOUT GUNS OR WHATEVER THE SOLUTION IS, IT'S JUST LET'S START BACK AT THE BEGINNING AND LET'S CARE AGAIN, LET'S START WITH EMPATHY.

>> THE BRIAN, YOUR DAUGHTER GRACIE WAS KILLED AT THE SAUGUS HIGH SCHOOL SHOOTINGS BACK IN NOVEMBER 2019, AND YOU WERE ONE OF THE PARENTS THAT SHARED THEIR STORIES AND ALLOWED STEVE TO JUST LITERALLY BE IN HER ROOM.

TELL US, I GUESS, OUR AUDIENCE, A LITTLE BIT ABOUT GRACIE.

>> YEAH, GRACIE WAS OUR YOUNGEST DAUGHTER.

SO, WE HAD TWO BOYS AND THEN GRACIE.

SHE WAS A VIVACIOUS, FUNNY, JUST A LIFE OF THE PARTY TYPE OF LITTLE GIRL.

I MEAN, EVER SINCE SHE WAS LITTLE, SHE HAD A CAMERA PHONE IN HER HAND OR A CAMERA SOME SORT, WHO IS FILMING HERSELF AND ENTERTAINING.

AND AS SHE GOT OLDER, SHE CONTINUED DOING THAT, AND SHE JUST LIVED LIFE TO ITS FULLEST.

>> HI.

>> SHE WAS THE LIFE OF THE PARTY, SHE BROUGHT A LOT OF JOY TO US, I FEEL LIKE SHE WAS A GIFT FROM GOD, TELLING US WHAT TRUE JOY LOOK LIKE, AND THAT'S WHAT SHE REPRESENTED FOR US.

>> I GUESS ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT PEOPLE WILL WONDER IS WHY DID YOU KEEP HER ROOM THE SAME WAY?

>> YOU KNOW, IT WAS THE FIRST PLACE WE WENT TO WHEN WE GOT HOME FROM THE HOSPITAL THAT MORNING, AND IT WAS A PLACE WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME IN THE DAYS AND WEEKS AFTER.

IT STARTED SYMBOLIZING, YOU KNOW, THE LIFE IT WAS , IN SO MANY WAYS, IT WAS A PLACE WHERE WE WENT TO FEEL GRACIE'S PRESENCE IN SO MANY WAYS.

IT HAD HER PERSONALITY, YOU KNOW, PEPPERED THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE PLACE.

YOU KNOW, AS THE YEARS WENT ON, WE CLEANED IT UP AND STRAIGHTENED IT UP AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

IT WAS QUITE A DISASTER THE DAY OF, LIKE ANY TEENAGER BROOM MIGHT BE.

CLOSE DRAWN EVERYWHERE, ALL THE 17 OUTFITS SHE MIGHT HAVE TRIED ON THAT WEEK, PLANNING FOR HER WEEKEND AND SO FORTH, BUT IT WAS A PLACE OF PEACE, A PLACE OF SOLACE WHERE WE COULD GO AND JUST FEEL HER PRESENCE AND BE WITH HER, YOU KNOW?

FOR SO MANY --UP UNTIL WE RECENTLY MOVED, MY WIFE EVERY MORNING WOULD OPEN HER DOOR, GRACIE'S DOOR, AND SAY GOOD MORNING, SWEETIE.

AND EVERY NIGHT, TELL HER GOOD NIGHT AND CLOSE THE DOOR.

AS IF SHE WAS STILL THERE IN SO MANY WAYS.

SO, IT WAS JUST A WELCOME OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE STEVE AND THEM EXPERIENCE SOME OF THAT WITH US.

>> STEVE, YOU HAVE NOW HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO STAND IN THESE PLACES.

FOR SOMEONE WHO MIGHT NOT HAVE EVER DONE THAT, GIVE US A SENSE OF WHAT THAT IS LIKE, WHAT KIND OF EMOTIONS HIT YOU.

>> WELL, THE ROOMS MANY TIMES JUST THERE FROZEN IN TIME IN THEIR LITTLE DETAILS, THEIR LITTLE DETAILS THAT STAND OUT THAT SHOW JUST HOW QUICKLY THAT LIFE WAS EXTINGUISHED.

A LOT OF TASKS LEFT UNDONE.

LIKE THE TOOTHPASTE TUBE WITH THE CAP STILL OFF.

YOU KNOW, HOMEWORK STREWN ON THE FLOOR.

I WILL PICK THAT UP LATER, I WILL DO THAT LATER, AND LATER NEVER CAME.

SO, FOR ME, YOU KNOW, STANDING IN THE ROOMS JUST REMINDS ME OF HOW QUICKLY THE LIFE WAS TAKEN , AND ALSO ALLOWS --FOR SOME REASON, I SEE MY OWN KIDS AND ALL THESE ROOMS, BECAUSE THERE IS A SAMENESS TO THEM IN THE SOMETIMES THE SAME LITTLE TRINKETS THAT THEY COLLECT ARE IN MY KIDS' ROOMS.

AND I THINK WHAT SETS THE FILM APART IS THAT , YOU KNOW, YOU SHOW THE PICTURE OF A BEAUTIFUL CHILD THAT WAS KILLED IN A SCHOOL SHOOTING AND YOU CAN EASILY DISMISS, THAT'S SOMEBODY ELSE'S CHILD, THAT IS NOT ME.

BUT YOU LOOK AROUND THE ROOM AND I FEEL LIKE IT BECOMES YOUR KID 'S ROOM, AND I THINK MAYBE THAT IS PART OF THE REASON THAT THE FILM IS RESONATING AS DEEPLY AS IT IS, IS BECAUSE WE FINALLY HAVE A CHANCE TO PUT OURSELVES IN THOSE SHOES.

>> BRIAN, YOU KNOW, BEING KIND OF IN THIS WEIRD PLACE WHERE THE SPOTLIGHT IS ON YOU FOR MAYBE IT IS A DAY OR A WEEK, AND THEN YOU HAVE STEPHEN HARTMAN KIND OF REACHING OUT IN THIS VERY LONG-TERM PROJECT AND ASKING YOU, WHAT MADE YOU WANT TO SAY YES?

>> YOU KNOW, IT WAS --WE WERE A LITTLE APPREHENSIVE AT FIRST.

WE RECEIVED THIS LETTER IN APRIL OF '24 AND CINDY AND I TALKED ABOUT IT AT LENGTH.

WE HAD A DESIRE IN OUR HEARTS TO MOVE OUT OF CALIFORNIA.

WE HAD BEEN WANTING TO MOVE FOR A WHILE, SINCE THE SHOOTING.

AND WE COULDN'T COME TO PEACE AND COME TO GRIPS WITH THINGS.

AND WE OFTEN FOUGHT LIKE HOW WOULD WE GO ABOUT THIS ?

WHAT WE FILM THE ROOM OURSELVES, GET A PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER?

RE-CREATE IT?

WHERE DO WE LAND NEXT?

THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND IT WAS KIND OF A BLESSING FROM GOD AS MY WIFE ALWAYS SAYS, STEVE, YOU'RE AN ANGEL FROM HEAVEN AND COMING INTO OUR LIFE AND GIVING US THIS OPPORTUNITY TO FILM HER ROOM AND TO GET REALLY INTIMATE WITH IT, SO THAT PEOPLE CAN EXPERIENCE THAT SACRED SPACE, REALLY GAVE US A SENSE OF PEACE.

SO, WHEN THEY CAME IN IN JUNE AND STARTED FILMING, WE JUST FELT THIS COMPLETE PEACE COME OVER US THAT WE JUST FELT LIKE THIS WAS MEANT TO BE, YOU KNOW, THAT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO SHARE GRACIE'S ROOM WITH THE WORLD AND GRACIE'S PERSONALITY.

>> AND IF NOTHING ELSE COMES FROM THIS, BRIAN, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE ALL INVESTED A LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT INTO THIS FILM, AND IF NOTHING ELSE COMES FROM IT, THEN YOU GUYS BEING ABLE TO MOVE AND SET THE ROOM ASIDE , GOOD BY ME.

GOOD.

>> YEAH, YEAH, DEFINITELY MADE US FEEL THAT --YOU KNOW, I THINK I ASKED THE QUESTION IN THE DOCUMENTARY, YOU KNOW, IF THE ROOM GOES AWAY, DOES SHE GO AWAY?

AND WE CAN HONESTLY SAY, THAT IS NOT THE CASE, SHE DOES NOT GO AWAY WHEN THAT ROOM GOES AWAY.

SHE IS STILL ALIVE AND WELL IN OUR HEARTS AND THE FILM, YOU GET TO SEE HER PERSONALITY.

AND WE STILL EXPERIENCE HER EVERY SINGLE DAY OF OUR LIVES.

>> BRIAN, STEVE COMES WITH A PHOTOGRAPHER, BLUE, AND THEY TAKE PHOTOS.

ALMOST INTIMATE PORTRAITS OF THINGS THAT ARE IN GRACIE'S ROOM.

TELL US, IF YOU CAN, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WERE MAYBE REVEALED IN THESE PHOTOS, IF YOU HAVE BEEN WALKING BY, BUT NOTICED IN A DIFFERENT WAY?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, FOR ONE THING, YOU KNOW, I HAVE NEVER SEEN SUCH A RESPONSIBLE AND RESPECTFUL INDIVIDUAL AS I SAW IN LOU, YOU KNOW, WALKING INTO THESE ROOMS.

I DIDN'T CATCH IT UNTIL THE MOVIE CAME OUT AND WE SAW THE PREMIER OF IT, AND YOU KNOW, HE WOULD TAKE YOUR SHOES OFF BEFORE HE WENT IN THERE, JUST HONOR THE SECRET PLACE OF THE ROOMS.

AND YOU KNOW, HE GOT IN THERE AND WE SHOWED HIM AROUND A LITTLE BIT, BUT THEN WE LEFT HIM TO BE, AND HE JUST SAT THERE AND LOOKED AT THE ROOM IN DIFFERENT ANGLES AND VIEWS AND GOT ON HIS BELLY AND LOOKED UNDER THE BED AND UNDERTHINGS AND TOOK LIGHT OF THINGS YOU PROBABLY DON'T CAPTURE, YOU KNOW, AS MUCH, WHEN YOU'RE JUST WALKING BY IT DAY IN AND DAY OUT, BECAUSE OF THE WAY HE PHOTOGRAPHS THINGS.

HE IS JUST AMAZING.

I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE GOT GRACIE'S SHOES BACK THAT SHE WAS WEARING THE DAY OF THE SHOOTING, AND THEY SIT ON THE STAND WHERE HER CLOTHES AND OUTFITS WERE STILL HUNG UP FOR THAT WEEK, SHE STILL HAD TWO OUTFITS PICKED OUT FOR FRIDAY THAT WEEK, AND THE SHOES ARE ON THERE, AND HE TAKES A PICTURE OF THE SHOES AT SUCH AN ANGLE THAT I CAN SEE MOMENTS OF THAT DAY IN A VERY SURREAL WAY, THAT I NEVER NOTICED BEFORE.

AND THAT IS BECAUSE HE IS SO UP AND CLOSE WITH THE PHOTO.

HE CAPTURED THE PERSONALITY OF GRACIE THROUGHOUT, DEFINITELY.

YOU KNOW, THE TRINKETS SHE HAD IN HER DRAWER, THE NOTES SHE HAD TO HER FUTURE SELF, AND THE PILLOWS ON THE BED AND HER BIG , STUFFED DOG THAT SHE HAD THERE AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

>> AND CAPTURING THAT PERSONALITY FOR ME -- AND I THINK THE FAMILIES, TOO, WAS REALLY FUN.

I MEAN, IT SEEMS STRANGE TO SAY THAT YOU'RE GOING INTO THIS -- THIS PLACE THAT SEEMS SO BITTERLY SAD, BUT THERE WERE LOTS, YOU KNOW.

I THINK ANYBODY WHO WOULD LOSE A CHILD UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, THEY WANT THE WORLD TO REMEMBER THEIR CHILD, AND THERE ARE USUALLY A LOT OF LAUGHS THAT GO ALONG WITH THAT, SO WE ACTUALLY HAD A GOOD TIME AND IT WAS FUN TO LEARN ABOUT THE KIDS AND SHARE THEIR STORIES AND JUST DOING OUR PART TO MAKE SURE THESE KIDS ARE NOT FORGOTTEN.

>> STEVE, WHEN YOU DID THIS PROJECT THIS WAS NOT BLESSED BY CBS NEWS, YOU SAY IN THE DOCUMENTARY THAT YOU REALLY KIND OF KEPT IT HIDDEN FROM YOUR BOSSES UNTIL IT WAS PRETTY MUCH DONE, WHY?

>> BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I'M THE FEEL-GOOD NEWS GUY.

I DO THE STORIES THAT COME AT THE END OF THE NEWSCAST THAT ARE MEANT TO RESTORE YOUR FAITH IN HUMANITY, SO THIS PROJECT WAS WAY OFF BRAND FOR ME BUT IT WAS ONE OF THOSE BETTER TO ASK FORGIVENESS THAN PERMISSION KIND OF THINGS BUT >> THE SEEMS TO BE ALSO, AS YOU POINT OUT, A TENSION IN HOW YOU APPROACH THE JOB, THE ASSIGNMENTS THAT YOU WERE GIVEN, TO TRY TO FIND THE SILVER LINING AFTER A HORRIBLE WEEK AT THE END OF THE MASS SHOOTING, AND YOU JUST SAYING I DON'T WANT TO DO THIS ANYMORE.

>> YEAH.

FOR A WHILE, ANYTIME THERE WAS ANY MASS SHOOTING --BECAUSE MY STORIES, AT THE END OF THE CBS EVENING NEWS, AND WE WANT TO LEAVE PEOPLE ON A POSITIVE NOTE, SO I WAS TOLD TO FIND SOME POSITIVE ANGLE TO THIS SCHOOL SHOOTING.

AS CRAZY AS THAT SOUNDS GREAT AND THERE ARE THINGS, THERE ARE THE HERO, TEACHER, OR THE COMMUNITY COMING TOGETHER.

BUT JUST WITH THIS SUBJECT, I JUST DIDN'T WANT TO DO IT ANYMORE.

YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T WANT TO DO ANYMORE SORT OF FEEL-GOOD STORIES ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE SCHOOL SHOOTING.

I COULDN'T --I JUST COULDN'T DO IT ANYMORE, I HAD TO GO IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION.

>> BRIAN, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU SHARE WITH STEVE IS A BOX WHERE YOU DISCOVERED THAT SHE SENT -- WROTE NOTES TO HER FUTURE SELF, AND WHAT DO THOSE NOTES MEAN TO YOU NOW?

>> YOU KNOW, THEY WERE -- THEY WERE INTERESTING TO FIND, TO SAY THE LEAST, WHEN WE FIRST FOUND THEM ORIGINALLY.

AND YOU KNOW, THEY'RE KIND OF SURREAL, BECAUSE SHE IS WRITING LETTERS TO HER FUTURE SELF, AND SHE WROTE ONE, YOU KNOW, GRADUATING EIGHTH GRADE, STARTING HIGH SCHOOL, DRIVING, AND GOING OFF TO COLLEGE.

SHE WAS ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH TWO OF THEM.

SO, WHEN YOU READ THE ONES THAT SHE DIDN'T GET TO ACCOMPLISH, YOU ARE A BIT SAD THAT SHE DIDN'T GET TO ENJOY THOSE EXPERIENCES IN LIFE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, YOU SAW THAT SHE HAD THE WHEREWITHAL TO EVEN THINK ABOUT WRITING TO HER FUTURE SELF.

IN A SENSE, SHE IS ALMOST WRITING TO US.

THERE IS AN INTERESTING COMPONENT TO THAT POINT SHE SAID TO HERSELF, SHE WROTE A POEM AND I'VE GOT IT TATTOOED ON MY ARM NOW, YOU ONLY HAVE ONE LIFE TO LIVE, SO WHY NOT LET IT GREAT AND FILL IT WITH MEMORIES AND EXPERIENCES?

AND THAT ACCOMPANIED LETTERS SHE WROTE TO HER FUTURE SELF.

SHE IS TELLING US HOW WE NEED TO EMBRACE LIFE AND LIVE GOING FORWARD, AND I THINK THAT WAS THE TAKE AWAY WE GOT FROM THAT, FOR SURE.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS FASCINATING IS THE RIPPLE EFFECTS OF HOW THIS SADNESS NOT JUST DEALS WITH --FOR THE PARENTS, BUT ALSO THE SIBLINGS.

WHAT HAS IT BEEN LIKE TOLERATING, BEARING THIS GRIEF WHILE YOU STILL HAVE TO BE A DAD TO KIDS WHO ARE ALSO GRIEVING, BUT KIDS WHO ARE TRYING TO PROCESS THIS AND THEY NEED THEIR MOM AND DAD FULL- TIME AS WELL?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, IT WAS SOMETHING .

I AM WORKING ON WRITING A BOOK RIGHT NOW AND KIND OF REFLECTING ON THE DAY OF THE SHOOTING AND THE DAYS AFTER.

I WAS TALKING TO HEATHER, WHO WAS SITTING NEXT TO A FRIEND OF MY WIFE'S AND SHE WAS RECALLING, SHE SAYS YOU IMMEDIATELY WENT FROM DOWN ON YOUR HANDS AND KNEES, CRYING, THE FATHER MODE.

YOU KNOW?

YOU'VE GOT TO NOW CONTACT YOUR BOYS, YOU'VE GOT TO START CALLING THE FAMILY MEMBERS AND TAKE ACTION.

SO, I THINK WE ARE JUST INNATELY WIRED TO DO THAT.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT KEEPS ME GOING, YOU KNOW?

I AM SURE THIS IS HARD ON MANY FAMILIES WHEN THEY GO THROUGH A TRAGEDY LIKE THIS AND LOSING A CHILD, BUT I IMMEDIATELY JUST THOUGHT TO MYSELF, I HAVE GOT THESE TWO OTHER BOYS I GOT TO TAKE CARE OF, I HAVE GOT A WIFE WHO I NEED TO BE THERE FOR.

AND IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE DO EVERY DAY.

YOU KNOW, WE ARE ALWAYS REACHING OUT TO OUR BOYS, WE ARE SPREAD OUT ACROSS THE COUNTRY NOW, AND THEY ARE DOING WELL, BUT THEY'RE STILL DEALING WITH IT AS WELL, JUST LIKE WE ARE.

>> STEVE, YOU WERE ABLE TO CAPTURE A COUPLE OF THE SIBLINGS AS WELL, AND YOU CAN SEE ON CAMERA HOW DEEPLY AFFECTED THE SIBLINGS ARE BY THIS.

ANTIOCH, THE FILMMAKER, JOSH, HE INTERVIEWED THE BOYS OF ONE OF THE FAMILIES, AND YOU KNOW, I WAS IN THE OTHER ROOM WHEN HE WAS DOING THE INTERVIEW, AND IT'S HARD TO LISTEN TO BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW, YOU HEAR OFTEN FROM THE GRIEVING PARENTS, BUT IT'S NOT OFTEN THAT YOU HEAR WHAT THIS WHOLE EXPERIENCE IS LIKE FOR THE SIBLINGS.

AND AGAIN, I JUST --I AM JUST WIRED TO SORT OF PUT MYSELF IN THOSE SHOES AND THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, MY OTHER KIDS AND HOW DEVASTATED THEY WOULD BE .

SO, YEAH, THE FULFILLMENT IS FULL OF --YOU KNOW, IT'S EMOTIONAL, AND THAT IS ONE OF THE MORE EMOTIONAL MOMENTS IN THE FILM.

BUT THE FILM ALSO, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE LAUGHS, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE GIGGLES AT THINGS, AND I THINK ULTIMATELY, YOU KNOW, THROUGH IT ALL, I FEEL GREAT HOPE AT THE END OF THIS FILM.

I FEEL LIKE THAT WE CAN -- WE CAN FIND A BETTER WAY, AND I JUST FEEL LIKE MAYBE THIS MIGHT JUST BE THE BEGINNING, AND I CERTAINLY HOPE IT IS.

>> BRIAN, STEVE AND LOU GAVE YOU A BOOK OF PHOTOS, WHAT DID THAT POKE ME IN?

>> IT WAS THAT INVITATION THAT IT IS OKAY TO MOVE, IS WHAT IT WAS.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE GOT THAT TAKE AWAY NOW OF HER ROOM.

WITH AMAZING PHOTOGRAPHY AS YOU HAVE SEEN IN A FILM , THAT WE CAN LOOK AT ANYTIME WE WANT AND COME BACK TO THAT ROOM, SO THAT GAVE US THE INVITATION TO MOVE AWAY.

AND I WANTED TO ADD ONE THING, WHEN THEY HAD REACHED OUT ABOUT DOING THIS FILM, STEVE AND I HAD A CONVERSATION.

I GET CONTACTED A LOT.

AND A LOT OF THESE THINGS HAVE TO DO WITH THE POLARIZING AND POLITICAL SIDE OF GUN VIOLENCE OR WHAT HAVE YOU.

AND WE TALKED ABOUT TWO THINGS IN PARTICULAR.

ONE IS WE DIDN'T WANT IT TO BE ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER, THIS IS A HUMAN ISSUE WE HAVE GOT, ESPECIALLY IN OUR COUNTRY.

AND THE SECOND SIDE WAS WE REALLY WANTED TO DRAW THAT EMPATHY UP IN THE VIEWER.

WE WANTED THEM TO STEP INTO THE ROOMS, AS STEVE SAYS, AND FEEL SOME OF THAT PAIN THAT WE EXPERIENCE EVERY SINGLE DAY OF OUR LIVES, WITH THE HOPE THAT THIS MAYBE INSPIRES SOME CHANGE IN SOME WAY.

>> THIS FILM IS CALLED ALL THE EMPTY ROOMS, IT IS AVAILABLE NOW ON NETFLIX.

BRIAN MUEHLBERGER,STEVE HARTMAN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

> THANKS FOR HAVING US.