I went back to Tulsa and a good friend of mine, Jay WhiteCrow, he said, I asked him, "I just got divorced and I wonder what to do when I'm meeting new people and stuff like that," and he said, "Hey!

I got just the thing for you, American Indian Theater Company.

Check it out."

So, that developed.

We began to be cast in things, and we, we worked on plays, and after a while, we mounted the plays and did them any place that we could.

A lot of, like, old folks homes and, - Sure.

any place we could get into that had a little stage.

It didn't even need a stage, but.

What was it about it that appealed to you?

- It scared me.

- Uh-huh.

One of the scariest things at that point in my life was being able to step out from the wings to a mark out on the stage, and say my line.

It's terrifying.

- It's terrifying.

- Yeah.

It's like traveling through a, like a, a Jell-O-ized air that you just walk through and then hit that mark and then, "Hello, Mr. Johnson.

How's your family?"