male announcer: Theatre Corner is brought to you by.

The Harold K. Brown Economic Development and Education Foundation, Harold and LaVerne Brown, Rachel Malveaux, Tania Adami, and viewers like you, thank you.

Michael Taylor: Welcome to "Theatre Corner."

I'm your host, Michael Taylor.

As a lifelong theater enthusiast and a former board member of one of the nation's top theaters, I've witnessed firsthand the transformative power of embracing a multitude of perspectives on stage and in the audience.

This interview series was born from my passion for theater and aims to amplify the rich tapestry of voices that make up the theater world.

Join us as we engage with leading professionals in the entertainment industry, delving into their artistic process, careers, offering inspiration for aspiring creatives, and exploring ways to make theater resonate with a broader audience.

"Theatre Corner" welcomes the award-winning recording artist and actress Deborah Cox, celebrated for her chart topping hit "Nobody's Supposed to Be Here," which recently marked its 25th anniversary.

Cox reflects on the song's enduring impact and its deep resonance within Black culture.

In San Diego, she captivated audiences as Glinda in the reimagined production of "The Wiz."

Cox discusses her dual role as both performer and producer, highlighting the show's modern take, infused with cultural nuances.

Join us as we delve into Deborah Cox's remarkable journey, her contributions to theater, and her reflections on a legacy that continues to inspire.

So, silence your cell phones, folks, you're entering "Theatre Corner."

[cheering] [cheering] ♪ Ah ♪ ♪ Yeah ♪ ♪ Oh yeah ♪ ♪ I've tried it ♪ ♪ Over and over ♪ ♪ No, my heart says no ♪ ♪ No, no, no ♪ ♪ Nobody's supposed to be here ♪ ♪ Came along and you changed ♪ ♪ How did you get here?

♪ ♪ Oh, nobody's supposed to be here ♪ ♪ Nobody's supposed to be here ♪ ♪ I've tried it all ♪ ♪ Hey, my heart says no, no, no, no, no, no ♪ ♪ Nobody's supposed to be here.

♪ ♪ Came along and you changed ♪ ♪ My my mind ♪ ♪ Oh ♪♪ Michael: Deborah Cox, welcome, welcome to "Theatre Corner."

Deborah Cox: Thank you.

Michael: I really appreciate you being here and welcome to KPBS audience.

Deborah: Thank you.

Michael: And I tell you, I've been waiting 25 years to ask you one question, one question.

Deborah: That's along time, so this question better be good.

Michael: Oh yeah.

it's a good question.

And the question is: ♪ How did you get here?

♪ That's a long time, I got it out.

And we could actually start there because this iconic song, "Nobody's Supposed to Be Here" that you recorded, is just--this is, actually last year you had the 25 year anniversary of that song.

Deborah: Yes, yes.

Michael: It's baked into the Black culture.

Deborah: Absolutely, yeah, yeah.

And I kind of knew that, listening to the song, I knew that it was special.

I did not know that it would be a record-breaking song.

I mean, we would open up "Billboard" every week and see that it was still number one.

And so, when it broke the record at being at 14 weeks, it was just deeply, deeply gratifying because it was a song that defied the odds.

It was very different on radio at the time.

There was a lot of hip hop, and the song just kept getting airplay all over the place, all over the world.

And then the dance version just took on a life of its own, so it's like these two separate messages in a song that have just touched people in a really profound way, you know?

Michael: And so, I understand when you first got the the demo, which is merely a template, you had to infuse your own self into that song, and when you did it, it was like boom.

What was your approach, you know, to owning that song like that, making it yours?

Deborah: Making it my own really just meant finding the truth in it.

The song really resonated with me.

I had actually been in that situation myself, you know, finding love just sort of hit me or blindsiding me, you know what I mean?

And I think when you find real truth and connection with the song, that's what happens.

You just, you know, the emotion comes out of that, and there were moments in the bridge where I just sort of let go and held the note long, and that was just out of, just the feeling of, you know, what it made me feel in the moment.

Michael: Right, I mean, I certainly can feel that because I mean, even they say like real blues singers can't sing the blues unless they, you know, went through some things.

Deborah: Went through some things, right.

Michael: You know, how does that make you feel to know, I mean, millions of people hearing this song, but that song fitting into so many situations around the world.

Deborah: It's confirmation that I'm doing what I'm supposed to do.

I'm fulfilling and living my purpose, living my truth, and living authentically.

And I think when I hear people's stories across the board, you know, talk about how that song and what that song meant to them, it really blesses me, you know what I mean?

It gives me this sort of confirmation that I'm doing exactly what I've been put on this earth to do, just to connect through music.

That's why I just stay in gratitude, Michael.

I just--I don't take anything for granted, and as I've gotten older and as I've had my family and that's what I'm--I just make sure to acknowledge every day.

Michael: Let me get off that song 'cause brother gonna start crying the more I think about that song.

I do love it.

So, you're here in San Diego actually to perform as Glinda in "The Wiz."

Aunt Em: That tornado is closing in.

Come on, Dorothy.

♪♪♪ ♪ Come on, he's on down, he's on down the road.

♪ ♪ Come on, he's on down, he's on down the road.

♪ ♪ Don't you carry something that might be a load.

♪ ♪ Come on, he's on down, he's on down, down the road.

♪ ♪♪♪ ♪ Hey ♪ ♪ Hey ♪ ♪ Who we are, we are the--hey ♪ ♪ I'm a lion ♪ ♪ A lion ♪ ♪ A lion ♪♪ Michael: Tell me about this experience, this show because you're beyond a performer, you're also co-producing.

Deborah: I am, yes, I am a co-producer on this one as well, and really honored to hold that title along with, you know, some other early believers.

When I got invited by the director, Shelly Williams, she asked if I was interested in just reading the script and the workshop.

And I was like, "Just say less, girl.

I am there."

And I literally--I just happened to be in New York anyway, and I was--the next day it was the workshop and everybody was in the room, we read the script and just the story off the page made me an early believer because it was like this is a reimagined version.

There's more of a modern take to make it more even more of a classic infused with our cultural things that make it very unique.

And that resonated with me, really, really resonated with me.

So, I talked to my husband about us, you know, becoming more involved with it and then we were on board.

I mean, we had just finished launching our wine company.

So it was like we have, you know, these colossal decisions to make, you know?

But it was like this is a legacy, you know, that we wanna be a part of and want to be able to say that we helped to bring to the forefront and bring to the masses, you know.

Playing Glinda in it is really a true honor, you know, singing the songs in the show and just being a part of this brilliant cast.

And the creative team is incredible, you know, putting on my costume Sharon Davis designed, you know.

And Hannah Beachler with the set design, you know.

These are real giants in their field.

And I go into the production with gratitude to be able to play this role.

Michael: I mean, the show was tremendous.

I mean, I sat there and two and a half hours were gone just like that.

My friends asked me, you know, about the show.

The first thing that I tell them, you know, it's exciting and all that.

I'm talking to my Black folks.

The thing that stood out to me, and you and you kind of alluded to it a little bit, there are so many Black cultural nuances in there and it's just really makes it something particularly special.

Deborah: Yes, I would say the creative team really set the tone between the set design, the costume design, the makeup design by Kirk Cambridge-Del Pesche, the choreography by JaQuel Knight, you know, the creative team, you know, Schele's direction really set the tone for what the show would be, and I think it has the essence of the original Broadway version and the film in some ways.

And because a lot of the cast, or at least the principal cast, we all have a real connection to the film because we--that was the only version that we've seen and the other versions we see on YouTube and that kind of thing.

So, it has a very different take for us.

You know, we all come to the project with a different perspective.

And I think that's why this version is so so special.

It is a reimagined contemporary version, but it really has the essence of, you know, Broadway and what the film brought.

Michael: So, tell me about the set design.

Deborah: Well, there's a lot of symbolism in a lot of the scenes that include a lot of Afrofuturism.

And so, when we do a lot of our talk backs after the show, there are professors from the African American Museum that have come and seen the show and were really impressed that a lot of those things were infused in the show.

And if you're really paying attention and looking at certain things, you'll notice them.

I mean, this is a Black production, and I think that it's a beautiful production that explores Black people, not as a monolith.

You know, we have many different cultures within the culture you know.

And it's beautifully displayed in the show.

Michael: In terms of legacy, Lena Horne introduced the character you're playing back in 1978 in the original film version.

How do you go about, like, honoring her work, but at the same time, making that role your own?

Deborah: For me, I always try to obviously pay homage to the one who laid the groundwork, and I know the shoulders that I stand on with this role, and it was a beautiful challenge because she made such a mark and such a--she had such a presence in the film.

And I knew that I wanted to both pay homage, but also inject some more of the jazz influence that she had in the film and also that I have as a background.

So, when I got "He's The Wiz," I knew that I wanted to do something different, but something that was still memorable but something that still paid homage to the style of the song, which to me, felt very jazz--jazzy, you know.

So, that's what I did with Joseph Joubert who did who did the music and Allen Louis who also did the music as well.

We, you know, it was very collaborative in the sense that there were certain melodic things that I would feel that I would do.

I wanted to do--I wanted to make sure that Glinda was--she was sort of birthed out of Dorothy's faith and birthed out of her wanting to go on this journey.

And so, I wanted Glinda to be that welcoming spirit and aura and vibration.

And so, I felt like in the moment that "He's The Wiz" starts, it send--I send her off on this journey and I wanted to be very inclusive of all the other characters in the scene as well.

So, we have the call and answer jazz moments that I think shows us as a collective, how different and how fun and mystical that we can be.

For me, that's the beauty of this role.

It's--I've never played a role like this before, magical and fun.

She's limitless, you know, both artistically and musically.

Michael: So, what's going through your head when--I mean, you shut it down with this--that your song is what--that's the last thing people remember.

I mean, this is a classic song at the end.

What goes through your mind when you're delivering such a huge, a huge weighty song like that?

Deborah: In rehearsal, I was like, "Why I always find myself in these productions that require these huge, you know, moments?"

You know, in "The Bodyguard," it was "I Will Always Love You," delivering that song every night.

And here I am, "Believe in Yourself" in a moment that is very, you know, I understand the importance of it, but I just try to stay present.

I try to stay in the moment, and a lot of the times, I'm really feeding off of Nichelle, our Dorothy, Nichelle Lewis, incredible, incredible actress and singer, dancer.

She's just so--she is like a true triple threat.

Michael: Right.

Oh, yeah she is.

Deborah: You know, and her instincts are so pure and honest, and I'm really responding off of her and her energy.

So, every single night the song is different because I'm really just sort of tapped into that moment, you know.

And I think that's what helps me to deliver the song and telling a story.

It's not about vocal acrobatics or antics or anything, it's really just delivering the story and what those words mean.

And that has been a mantra of mine almost practically most of my life, believe in yourself.

Yeah, it's gotten me to this--it got me to this moment, yeah.

Michael: Would you characterize yourself as a a singer who acts or an actor who sings?

Tricky question.

Deborah: Wow, it is a tricky question 'cause I came into this industry doing musical theater before I--before being a recording artist.

Michael: Oh, okay.

That's your foundation.

Deborah: A lot of people don't know that side of me.

They're sort of discovering this now, but I had been doing it before.

So, I guess you could say it's both.

It applies to both, yeah.

Michael: All right.

And so, you sort of had your own kind of a Dorothy journey, you know, coming out of Toronto.

How does a young girl, 'cause you started very early.

Deborah: I started at 12.

Michael: Started at 12 to get to Broadway.

Deborah: I just knew what I wanted to do.

I didn't know--I didn't have a roadmap of how I would get there.

In Toronto, there was not a lot of Black entertainment.

There wasn't a lot of--there wasn't an infrastructure for R&B music.

So, it took me having to go take other opportunities to get out there.

But I started singing background vocals for Celine Dion.

Got a lot of experience on the road doing that.

And then I met my husband.

The two of us, you know, wrote and produced songs that got to the ear of Clive Davis, and then he was the one who pretty much took me under his wing and offered a record deal.

And so, that's where the journey of the recording world started.

But, you know, prior to that, I was doing background vocals and commercials and doing musical theater, all kinds of things just because I loved to sing and I love to perform.

Michael: Speaking of like performing on Broadway, I mean, you're doing quite a challenging, to tour these cities and land into New York.

This is quite a challenge just for the average person, but you're a mother, you're a wife, or you have your wine coming out.

How do you manage that?

Deborah: You create a great team and you prioritize.

I know for me, the only reason why all of this works is because I prioritize my family life and my personal life.

And so, if that's not working, nothing else works.

You know what I mean?

It's like out of alignment, out of sync.

So, those are the things that make me happy and those are the things that I try to focus on and, like I said, prioritize and then it's easier to create sort of a system that'll work.

For our family like no more than a week to ten days, you know, being away from the family.

I mean, that works for me.

So, I try to not be away that long.

But then you know, my children are also teens now, so they're, you know, they're older now, but we shift and we change and we juggle and we tag team a lot.

And then we're both committing to making it work and figuring it out, you know what I mean?

We don't just throw in the towel, you know, when things get tough.

We just--we try to figure it out.

Michael: You know, a lot of people realize just the physicality of the performances, you know?

So, I was curious, like on a personal note, what do you--what is your go-to for keeping, because I mean, really, if that shuts down-- Deborah: Yeah, you don't have anything.

You don't have your health, you don't have anything.

Michael: What's your go to?

Deborah: My go to really is I take everything in moderation because I'm not gonna say it's all--I'm not vegan, I'm not, you know, I just--I eat what I like, I do things that make me happy, but I do a lot of that in moderation.

I just know that--I know what's required for me to do a show and sometimes I'm gonna get the six to eight hours and then sometimes I'm not.

So, if I know that I'm not gonna get that much time, then I try to take it easy on myself and I don't guilt myself into anything either, you know what I mean?

Sometimes it just is what it is and you just go with the flow.

Michael: You are an inductee as of May 2022.

But not just an inductee, but you're the first Black woman to be inducted into the Canadian Music Hall of Fame and only the second Black person after Oscar Peterson.

Deborah: I never would have thought that this would been a part of my journey, you know?

I've just learned that as a pioneer, as a trailblazer, as someone who was the first, it's going to come with a lot of unrecognition.

It's placed in your path so that, you know, you could do it what, you know, to whom much is given, much is required.

I never came into this industry thinking, "Oh my, this is--I wanna be in the Hall of Fame, or--" no, I just wanted to do music and touch lives and, and it has been a blessing to me, so I think this is part of the journey and part of the blessing and it's always about, you know, reaching and, and bringing people along with you on the journey.

Michael: And you, you certainly live in the moment.

Sort of last minute.

Tell me about this story where you, you actually got to sing with Bocelli.

That's huge.

Deborah: It is huge.

Andrea Bocelli is huge in the opera world, and I love his music and I got the call 24 hours before his performance at the O2 in London, so it meant getting on a flight and just sort of, you know, they needed an answer.

Someone had, I guess, canceled or gotten sick and I said yes, and I didn't even realize how I was gonna get there, what it was gonna require, what I needed to do and they were like, "Well, it's three songs.

One of them is in Italian," and I said, "Yes, just can you have a teleprompter."

And they were like, "Yes, we have," you know, all that.

So, I flew out there, got there, the hotel room wasn't ready, so I had breakfast.

When it was ready, it meant to just stay awake for the performance, and I got ready and put on my Roberto Cavalli dress and I went on the stage and was in front of like, just thousands, thousands of people at the O2 in London and just--I was just pinching myself like wow, these moments are what you stay prepared for.

And it just reminded me just like when you get that call from the great, you be ready.

And so, I did the show and it was amazing and then I got called again to do one of his specials in Florida for Valentine's Day and I sang "I Will Always Love You."

And so, it's been a beautiful connection.

Every now and then I'll go and do different performances, but these are things that this amazing journey has afforded me, you know?

And like I said, I don't take it for granted 'cause, you know, I just know that that does--that just doesn't happen.

Like singing with Whitney Houston, that just does not happen, you know?

So, I feel really, really blessed.

And Kazaisu, which is my wine company, is K-A-Z-A-I-S-U, Kazaisu, named after my three children.

You had a taste of it at the tasting--beautiful light tasting dry rosé that has all the varietals that I love, Grenache, Cinsault, and we found this beautiful vineyard, award-winning vineyard that's number one in sustainability called Chateau Margilliere and our company has also been approved by WeBank, the Women Owned certification.

It's fun being an entrepreneur in a completely different setting.

But yeah, it's like the wine kind of like--it's kind of parallel with my career.

Just sort of aging well.

Michael: Aging well indeed.

Absolutely, thank you so much for taking time to come visit a brother on Theater Corner.

I mean, you are your schedule is moving like that.

So, it's greatly, greatly appreciated.

Deborah: Sure, thank you.

Thank you for this platform and recognizing, you know, performers like myself.

I appreciate it.

Michael: Fantastic.

And I really appreciate you.

Keep doing what you're doing and keep representing us like you are.

Deborah: Thank you.

Will do.

Michael: All right, thank you so much, Deborah.

And thank you, viewers, for tuning into another episode of "Theatre Corner," and we'll see you next time.

Michael: Hey folks, this is Michael Taylor, your host of Theater Corner on KPBS.

Get ready, we got season four coming up for you with some incredible guests like the legendary Sheldon Epps.

We're gonna discuss his brand new book, "My Own Direction."

You don't wanna miss it.

So, follow us and like us on Instagram and on Facebook, and we'll see you soon.

♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ female announcer: Support for this program comes from the KPBS Explore Local Content Fund, supporting new ideas and programs for San Diego.